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awahl 10-25-2012 08:38 PM

Post Survey Cost Estimates
 
Hi Everyone -

We are in the process of purchasing a 1982 Endeavour 32. We've received the survey which notes a few things we need to address from a safety perspective, and some other findings that I'd want to address before we put her in the water in the spring. I am also debating on what this may mean to our purchase price. The surveyor has noted the boat in "Average" condition- and we're currently about $1500 higher than his suggested purchase price.

I must mention we are new boaters, and this is our first boat.

I know it's not always easy to predict based on a variety of factors, but I'm hoping to get some ballpark estimates on what we can expect to pay for some of the fixes mentioned- If anyone cares to add their two cents here is greatly appreciated.

Here are some of the things we'd be looking at:

Fix Mast Step Compression - Compression is not that bad, less than an inch, and not noted as a safety or major defect- just an observation. I have seen others use a fabricated metal plate, fit and glassed in, etc. I actually spoke to the marina and they can do this but I have not received a quote yet. This is the method we would expect to employ. I am not concerned with removal of the mast and re-rigging- more about the fix of the compression itself.

Various wiring fixes - There are some issues below the cockpit that need to be addressed. Wiring in the bilge needs to be checked. New battery switch. I'd like to have the mast re-wired (wind instrument is not working), and new spreader lights...etc.

Mast Gooseneck - The surveyor is noting that the boom to mast mounting plate looks "rocker-skewed", with loosening screws. Is this something that a rigger would repair? Is this something that is fairly typical- with a fairly stable cost range?

Fix Side Deck Delamination - One or two small spots on the deck that were noted as possibly requiring repair. This section of the deck is running along the toe rail about 30" forward and towards the centerline (10") The soft spots noted are directly above the quarter berth- which was noted as being "wet". Between this and the next item noted- wonder if they are related.

Other repairs to fiberglass - Under the notes & observations section is referenced an area on the upper hull at the shear- with some spider cracks and other "defects". Is this standard fiberglass repair type work, or does it require special materials, etc due to the location on the boat, proximity to where the cabin top joins the hull?

That's it for the major things I was wondering about...

One of the other things mentioned in the survey- and I'm not sure if this is standard survey etiquette, or because of the age/condition of the boat... to the effect of: "If cruising more than 25 nm offshore it is recommended that a USCG approved self inflating life raft be fitted to the vessel..." along with epirb...etc. - Now that sounds like common sense to me, but it makes me wonder if it's also being added because of the age/condition of the boat? Do older boats automatically get this kind of statement...or all boats...or is it dependent on the surveyor...?

I understand that cost will be dependent on time, hourly rate, etc- but hoping that those with experience with this kind of thing may be able to share some insight...

Any comments are appreciated...

Thanks again-
Andy

chuck53 10-25-2012 09:01 PM

Re: Post Survey Cost Estimates
 
??????

awahl 10-25-2012 09:34 PM

Re: Post Survey Cost Estimates
 
sorry I somehow caused the message to post before typing the bloody message...!

davidpm 10-25-2012 10:33 PM

Re: Post Survey Cost Estimates
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by awahl (Post 938605)
One of the other things mentioned in the survey- and I'm not sure if this is standard survey etiquette, or because of the age/condition of the boat... to the effect of: "If cruising more than 25 nm offshore it is recommended that a USCG approved self inflating life raft be fitted to the vessel..." along with epirb...etc. - Now that sounds like common sense to me, but it makes me wonder if it's also being added because of the age/condition of the boat? Do older boats automatically get this kind of statement...or all boats...or is it dependent on the surveyor...?
Andy

Congratulations on your almost purchase and welcome aboard.

As far as the life raft epirb etc that is basic recommendation for any boat going off-shore including brand new boats.
In fact in some off-shore races it is a requirement.

As far as the cost to fix those other items without even pictures internet expert estimates will be just wild guesses.
You are doing the right thing by getting quotes from the yard.
In one sense the only thing that matters is a quote from someone willing to do the work.

There does seem to be a fairly significant list of significant things.
The most troubling is the side deck soft spots and leaks.
These can be very expensive to have the yard fix, it is labor intensive.
Once you add up all the costs to get it from fair to good the boat price needs to reflect that.
Based on what you said so far, the current price may not be appropriate.

Another thing is just how will the boat look after the structural repairs are done?
The chances of repairing the side decks and the spider cracks and match the gelcoat are very unlikely. The fix is painting the whole boat.
That will make it look like new but can easily cost 20k which may be almost as much as you are planning on paying for the boat.

If everything else is pretty good and you get the boat for a good price you can choose to live with the spider cracks and soft deck if it is not super soft. Find the leaks and fix them.

Fixing the mast-step, wiring and goose neck your rigger can easily do just get a quote.

chuck53 10-25-2012 10:34 PM

Re: Post Survey Cost Estimates
 
Usually, the contract to buy a boat has certain conditions written into it. Basically, deficiencies found during survey should be addressed by the seller either outright or an adjustment in price. if the seller is unwilling to do either, you have the option of walking and getting your deposit back, only being out the cost of survey.
You need to go back to the negotiation table and hash out these issues and walk if the seller doesn't work with you.

chef2sail 10-26-2012 12:11 AM

Re: Post Survey Cost Estimates
 
These seem minor.

Mast step ( sounds like you want an upgrade,) wiring - to be expected in 35 year old boat, spider crascks oin a 31 year old boat...to be expected, a fewMALL soft spots...not a big deal. Goose neck...simple repair. Boaat was advertised as average.

Dave

Stumble 10-26-2012 01:23 AM

Re: Post Survey Cost Estimates
 
Without seeing the boat or pictures its hard to really know what is going on. But the only two issues that sound significant to me are the mast step compression, and the delamination. Everything else is just to be expected in a boat this age.

The mast step must be fixed. One it starts to compress it generally doesn't stop until the rig is punching a hole in the hull. There are a number of different way to fix it, but at a minimum you will likely have to pull the mast and disassemble the standing rigging. Not a huge job, but depending on the exact repair it could get expensive.

The delamination, and wet core is like cancer. If surgery isn't done immediately it will just grow and spread. So long as the damage is localized it can often be repaired from the inside, by just cutting away the inner skin, replacing the bad core, and grassing back the old skin. Depending on the repair size this can take an hour (less than an inch around), or require a full rebuild of the deck (once it spreads throughout).

awahl 10-26-2012 06:04 AM

Re: Post Survey Cost Estimates
 
We'll see if some of these items are a deal breaker or not once we get some quotes back. The thing is we really like the boat- it's older, yes- but I would think many of these issues will be found in an older boat- and we'd either be paying for them already fixed (higher price), or fixing them ourselves....

Thanks everyone-

Minnewaska 10-26-2012 06:59 AM

Re: Post Survey Cost Estimates
 
While I would be nervous buying a boat like you describe, there are good reason to do so and just get it fixed. Paying over surveyed value is hard to reconcile.

However, this is my concern over your story. These are all things that an owner that had the desire and resources to take proper care of their boat would have addressed already. That always tells me that there could be more coming. The biggest mistake I see made is buyers thinking that once they address survey findings, they are all set. No way. The survey is as much about telling you what to expect down the road than what is wrong now.

If you have a poorly maintained boat, it will have more trouble in the years ahead than a well maintained boat, even if you fully address what is wrong now.

canadianseamonkey 10-26-2012 09:28 AM

Re: Post Survey Cost Estimates
 
Awahl, congrats on the near purchase. What I can recommend is to ask other Endeavour owners if they have similar issues or any issues that are a concern. Do as much research as possible on that year and model. You never mentioned the price of the boat....less than 20k?

The repairs you mentioned do not seem to be all that critical. If the delamination was really bad the surveyor would or should have noted it as critical. How big are the spots? Spider cracks are nothing. Just use a dremel to clean out the cracks and fill them in with fiberglass or proper epoxy repair kit....they cost 20 bucks.


When I survey a boat I am usually quite hard on the survey for a few reasons. I want my client to know all the deffects and what needs immediate attention. Every little thing should be disclosed. Doesn't mean they all affect the integrity of the vessel or deams it non seaworthy. You can do most repairs as you go. Also, by disclosing everything it protects my ass. Your surveyor suggested that you have a self inflating raft mainly to protect his ass if something happens. I know more surveyors that spend more time in court than surveying.

So I'm going to assume your surveyor was hard on the boat, which is a very good thing. Go with your gut. If you like the boat and think you will enjoy working on her as much as sailing, then go for it. The Endeavours have a fairly good reputation.


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