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  #21  
Old 06-17-2006
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Given John232's statement in his opening post, it is pretty clear that he is going to attempt to hide the fact that this boat has suffered major damage from any future purchaser. This is both highly unethical and immoral, not to mention illegal.

Hopefully, anyone who looks this boat in the future will hire a very competent surveyor and the history of the boat will come to light.

The fact that he has decided to have Valiant replace the keel has no bearing on whether the boat was damaged in the first place. Jeff H's points about extraordinary stresses being place on the rest of the hull and rigging is very on point, and no keel replacement is going to remedy the pervasive damage caused by those stresses. The points about the water and possible mold/mildew problems is also a very valid one.

I would also question the legality of the title that John232 has come into possession of, but unfortunately, most state and federal laws regarding damaged and salvaged boats is not to the point where this is illegal IIRC. Immoral and unethical...and slimy... yes, but illegal, I don't believe so, but this may vary from state to state.

A good resource for boaters is http://nicb.org/ which has a database of many boats, which have been damaged or salvaged. In some cases, the damage is minor, in others it is very dangerous and has made the boat structurally unsound. Hope this helps.
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  #22  
Old 06-17-2006
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Jeff - I'm probably joining the discussion late here, but I think you did good to raise the point with John. Initially it looks like a windfall for him, but none of us would like to be on the receiving end of a boat with undisclosed repairs.

Being an airplane owner - I can tell you they are literally worthless without the engine and airframe logbooks. Damage history may not be an issue with every buyer, but every buyer is entitled to full disclosure.
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  #23  
Old 06-18-2006
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I'm the new guy here but as the saying goes, "you gotta start somewhere." Might as well be here...

Disclosure is really a consequent issue. The fact remains that the vessel IS a salvaged boat. It doesn't matter what the title says.
I think it's safe to conclude what John 232 meant in the original post. The intent was to attempt to claim market value for a salvaged boat (he even goes further to essentially say that "if they don't see it, I won't tell"). That's the whole point of even bringing up the issue of future resale...to sell the boat as if it were not salvaged. And that's dishonest. Call it casting the first stone if you like but but the fact is, when something like this is spoken as brazenly, then the community itself is just as responsible if they don't call it what it is!
Sometimes you've just got to address these things directly. Like pulling off a band-aid, sometimes it's better just to get it over with quickly instead of dragging ones feet and wasting time trying to make sure everyone is happy...it ain't gonna happen.
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BTW, not disclosing the fact that the boat is salvaged is actively lying through omission... Having to replace the keel is not a simple matter, and it can have major consequences, especially if not done properly. John232's intent to only disclose the fact if it is discovered is very clear...and extremely dishonest.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #25  
Old 06-18-2006
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The penalty for fraud and misrepresentation is treble damages - triple the amount of the sale. Since the profit on a boat is usually a fraction of the sale price, the intent of the law is to severly punish those who misrepresent what they sell.
The stakes are high enough that conscience or no conscience, most sellers aware of the law would lean towards full disclosure.
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