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  #31  
Old 11-04-2012
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re: First boat: Cal 2-27, Pearson 28 or Islander 28?

I learned to sail on a pearson 28. Although I love my Ericson I always remember how kind that person was to my less than salty maneuvering. All these boats are great, but I can say from experience that the Pearson is a great boat, and great for the novice sailor. In fact I know a ASA instructor who looked for that boat to teach his 101 classes on because its so forgiving to the unexperienced, while performing well for a more mature sailor. Plus the cabin has some serious headroom for us 6'2" boaters.

Cheers, and remember you'll fall in love with it no matter what your first boat is, and thats the real tick anyways.

Sean
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  #32  
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re: First boat: Cal 2-27, Pearson 28 or Islander 28?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kotyara View Post
That's a point very well taken. Despite deciding to go ahead with the electric, I still have some reservations about it, range and power being the biggest ones. From what I gathered, it seems most people have a small portable gas generator (Honda 2000 seems to be the usual choice), which alone is capable of providing around 4 knots of speed under calm conditions. It can also be run in addition to the batteries to get hull speed for a couple of hours. However, I'm not very clear on how it is deployed on the boat, particularly in bad weather, as it cannot be run in the cabin and I'm not sure it's designed to be doused in salt water all that much. I guess I'll start with it, and if turns out to be insufficient, there's always the possibility of mounting a proper diesel genset, although that would be expensive.

Another thing I'm worried about is the safety of that much electrical current running in the boat. Most installations I've seen pictures of look completely open and vulnerable to cabin flooding. I think I'd rather build a watertight enclosure for the whole system, but again, not sure how workable that would be.

So, all in all, I think these issues are workable, but the outboard will stay on the boat for a long time, until I'm absolutely sure the electric will do the job in all possible situations. 100lbs of dead weight is a small price to pay for added security.

Anyway, I'll keep you posted on the progress, but it's probably going to be at least another week till I get the boat surveyed and there's any new information...
I have an older version of the Honda 2000 generator, and with it wired to a motor it might push a small boat, but I would imagine the real value is in charging the batts. Mine will run a leaf blower or a few lights, but it does not take much of an increase in demand to trip the breaker. It does not take much grunt to move a sailboat in calm conditions, I once towed my 9k lb boat with a rowing dingy for serveral hundred yards. As I noted earlier my 20 HP diesel with a lot of torque can struggle to move it against chop and headwind.
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  #33  
Old 11-05-2012
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re: First boat: Cal 2-27, Pearson 28 or Islander 28?

Well, as I understand it, the rule of thumb is electric has to be half the power of the diesel it is replacing. Don't ask me why, something to do with torque curves I'm shooting for 8.5Kw (~11hp), that should beat the crap out of 8hp Honda outboard and the broken 12hp Farymann and be more than enough for the boat. The big question is how long will the battery hold out at that power level if I need it. Probably not long, but I'll have to figure out how much power I would really need to get out of a tight spot. At some point any engine would be overpowered.
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Old 11-09-2012
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re: First boat: Cal 2-27, Pearson 28 or Islander 28?

Finally got some traction on the boat, hopefully will be able to get the inspection done some time late next week. However, one bad piece of news is that the Honda outboard they promised me has been sold :/ So, now I have to look for motor separately. Would a 6hp 4-stroke be enough for it, or should I look for a 8-10hp? I'm trying to avoid 2-strokes for noise reasons, but besides weight, are there any advantages to them over 4-strokes?

Also, is there a big advantage to a x-long (25") shaft? I've been considering a new 6hp Tohatsu sailpro, which is only $1500. The main attraction is the long shaft, so I'd appreciate any opinions on that.

Last edited by kotyara; 11-09-2012 at 09:26 PM.
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Old 11-10-2012
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re: First boat: Cal 2-27, Pearson 28 or Islander 28?

You might reconsider. Why buy a boat without a working engine in this market?

I know others will disagree, but I am concerned about seeing a boat designed to have an inboard, carrying an outboard engine added to the transom. It looks like someone cut corners and was too cheap to repair the inboard.

If I were you, I would not get too attached to any particular boat. Just look for the best deal in your price range.
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Old 11-10-2012
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re: First boat: Cal 2-27, Pearson 28 or Islander 28?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kotyara View Post
It doesn't make financial sense to repower that boat with a diesel, it's a big upfront cost and little chance of getting it back on resale ($4K boat + $10K conversion - $8K resale tops = $6K loss).
This is why it makes sense to spend a little more upfront and find a boat with a good inboard diesel engine. I just also bought a new boat (a 1986 Pearson 28-2, little in common with the 28-1 that you are considering) and walked away from a couple of boats that appeared to need a repower. My 28-2 came with a pretty well maintained Yanmar 2GM20F.

An Islander 30 was one of our top choices too (the other contender was a C&C 30). One aspect that I didn't like was the fabric headliner that covered all of the deck hardware bolts. It made it difficult to inspect for leaks and the zippers to the headliners were frozen. In comparison my old Catalina 25 (a good first boat with none of the inboard headaches) had no headliner at all, and the Pearson that we bought has a rigid one with access panels to all deck bolts. I really prefer either of those options.

Electric inboard reduces your resale value because it limits how the boat can be used. It is great for a boat that is only going to be used on the bay, but the limited range makes it much less useful for short duration cruising (weeks not months or years). You can add a gas generator, but that's another big thing to be carrying around, and not something that I want in my cockpit when I'm forced to be motoring.

Anyway, I think you should be looking at other boats. It doesn't sound like any of these three are ideal for you.

I will say that a little smaller boat with an outboard (25' is about the upper limit) is a great way to get into sailing. Outboards are cheap and work well on smaller boats. Our Catalina 25 was motored in 4' seas without the prop coming out of the water using a 25" shaft length outboard. I learned a ton on that boat through lots of races, cruising (including a 12 day trip), and tons of day sailing. The smaller size (it's about 60% of the weight of my Pearson) made it more comfortable to single hand and the simpler systems made it very easy to work on. The are 22-25 foot boats available that are well suited to many types of sailing and that are a real blast. Outboards aren't awesome (they are noisy and even 4 stroke ones don't have great fuel economy), but they are good first boat motors.

You probably will get 3-to-5-foot-itis later on (as I did) and move up, but when you do the cheaper boat will be easy to sell and you'll have a much better idea of what you want on the bigger boat.
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  #37  
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re: First boat: Cal 2-27, Pearson 28 or Islander 28?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kotyara View Post
Also, is there a big advantage to a x-long (25") shaft? I've been considering a new 6hp Tohatsu sailpro, which is only $1500. The main attraction is the long shaft, so I'd appreciate any opinions on that.
You will need a 25" long shaft to have an outboard even have a chance of working well on a 28' boat.

A 10hp (or maybe slightly larger) motor is what would normally be recommended for a boat of this displacement.

4-stroke motors are quieter, cleaner, more efficient, and don't require blending oil into the fuel.

Our Catalina 25 (over 2000lbs lighter than the Cal 2-27) had a Tohatsu/Nissan 9.8hp 4 stroke 25" shaft motor. It normally ran at the lower end of the throttle, but the higher power was occasionally useful when fighting big headwinds.
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  #38  
Old 11-15-2012
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re: First boat: Cal 2-27, Pearson 28 or Islander 28?

Some thoughts from an actual Cal owner with an outboard. I have a Cal T/2 which is the IOR version of the Cal2 27. The outboard saves you 200+ pounds and prop drag, but does require a reinforced stern mount (mine came that way from the factory).

A 9.9 longshaft will push you to hull speed at low RPM's and stays in the water in all but the biggest waves.

The Cal is a good solid boat - mine has been bulletproof for 38 years. It's also a big cheat with an outboard because it's rating is based on the inboard version - it won't take long for your local club to catch on should you do the outboard conversion.
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  #39  
Old 11-16-2012
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re: First boat: Cal 2-27, Pearson 28 or Islander 28?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greeng View Post
Some thoughts from an actual Cal owner with an outboard. I have a Cal T/2 which is the IOR version of the Cal2 27. ...
Nope. The T/2 was based on the original Cal 27 hull. The 2-27 is about a foot shorter and has a completely different keel (encapsulated and 3100 pounds on the 2-27, verses external and 2500 pounds on the T/2 and original Cal 27).
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re: First boat: Cal 2-27, Pearson 28 or Islander 28?

Yep. I stand corrected. That said, in the protected conditions I sail in (waves 1-5 feet) the outboard has served me well - light weight, low cost, tiltout for racing.
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