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  #91  
Old 07-08-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Yup Kimchi is wonderful.Hey dont worry Bob they eat top Ramon all over East and south east Asia.It has different names but its the same thing.And thats exactly how they cook it.Good on ya.
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  #92  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I flew to Korea on Asiana.Great airline,great service.They had some bad luck here yesterday.
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  #93  
Old 07-08-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Pauls boat is taking him forever because it is a 57 footer, not a 36 footer, far more complex multi chine, not my single chine, and definitely not a shape I would ever design.Paul ended up married to a landlubber, and so the boat goes for months sometimes years, with nothing being done on her. Do your boats finish themselves if left out in the rain long enough?
(Abuse deleted)
I leave the lying to those who tell people it is worth their expense to pay them decades worth of cruising funds to draw pictures for them.
I only helped Clive get the shell of Nuthin Wong together,from an old Chinese design he gave me, not my design, for a trade, the rest was his department, not mine. Bob ,do you have complete control over how your boats end up being maintained and used? Nuthin Wong just spent 4 1/2 months on a reef in Panama, pounded by ocean swells, zero hull damage. How long would one of to your dainty little plastic things have lasted in those conditions.
I gave my 31 footer,30 gallons of epoxy at the outset, inside and out, along with a lot of marine enamel. All outside corners are trimed with stainless. I that the case with the other boats whioch people are complaining about maintenance on? Commercial boats often get a couple of coats of tremclad outside , zero paint inside,then complain about maintenance.
My 29 year od paint job is as good as the day I put it on, except for the odd paint chip, where I do my 2 hours year on touch up. Any time you have serious problems in the middle of a flat spot on a steel hull , your paint was not thick enough to begin with. Any time you can see the weld pattern thru the paint, it was not thick enough to begin with.
Most maintenance problems on steel boats are caused by inadequate cleaning and sandblasting of the steel and not enough epoxy over it. When a boat gets to that stage , sandblasting and at least 5 coats of epoxy tar on the outside three inside and a UV resistant coat over that wil eliminate most of the maintenace for decades.
Remember Porky Pig rolling on the ground laughing? That's me.

You are pretty funny dude. I will definitely give you that.

As I've always said, I do respect your ingenuity and recycling approach. Absolutely. But I no longer believe anything you say about your oragami boats.

As far as I'm concerned, building a steel boat is a great thing to do if the owner wants it - and knows what he's getting into in terms of the substantial technical, financial and time requirements involved. The S/V Seeker folks show that.

But for that Cruiser Wannabe to know what they're getting into, I certainly don't think they should listen your very questionable pitch as given in these threads. There's too much evidence out there to the contrary.

Mmmmm. Kimchi.
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  #94  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

What Mediterranean reef?

While not exactly a tree-hugger, and against too much regulation, I DO believe that we should take care of Mother Earth, and the skipper of Nothing Wong is apparently trying his best to destroy reefs and leak Diesel everywhere so should be stopped.

/Joms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Clives Time on a med reef is documented in his last book "No Fixed Address" A good read ,hard to put down. His time on the Panama reef in Boca de Toros will be covered in his next book. Or if you know anyone in Bocan de Toros, they can confirm it. A "Friend" who he left to look after her, towed it on the reef so his friends could strip her. He had to stay in Canada to get his pension in order. They only recently got her off.
I'l ask him to post the videos here when I get in contact with him again.
Bob you are a liar when you claim that a carbon fibre rudder at huge expense is a good idea for the average cruiser, when you claim that style over substance is a good priority fir the average cruiser,or you claim that you actually earn the $34000 for drawing pictures of boats , when some can buy a whole boat and go cruising for a year for less money,and you give this advice with little or no offshore cruising experience and zero hands on boatbuilding expereince. You lie when you imply that with zero experience owning and maintaining a steel boat, you know more about the costs of doing so, than someone who has owned, designed, built and maintained steel boats for 37 years. Then you follow it up with the childish, adolecent jeering of a 13 year old .
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

The predicted answer to: "Guess your answer will be that they were not put together in 2 days using origami karate man of steel methods thus were inferior quality and that we were stupid to trust our lives to the skipper and boat." Won't introduce you to the old man then, cause he'd rip your head clean off. She was built to the highest standards and the old man knew his stuff, being out of a Family of fishermen AND boatbuilders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Pauls boat is taking him forever because it is a 57 footer, not a 36 footer, far more complex multi chine, not my single chine, and definitely not a shape I would ever design.Paul ended up married to a landlubber, and so the boat goes for months sometimes years, with nothing being done on her. Do your boats finish themselves if left out in the rain long enough?
(Abuse deleted)
I leave the lying to those who tell people it is worth their expense to pay them decades worth of cruising funds to draw pictures for them.
I only helped Clive get the shell of Nuthin Wong together,from an old Chinese design he gave me, not my design, for a trade, the rest was his department, not mine. Bob ,do you have complete control over how your boats end up being maintained and used? Nuthin Wong just spent 4 1/2 months on a reef in Panama, pounded by ocean swells, zero hull damage. How long would one of to your dainty little plastic things have lasted in those conditions.
I gave my 31 footer,30 gallons of epoxy at the outset, inside and out, along with a lot of marine enamel. All outside corners are trimed with stainless. I that the case with the other boats whioch people are complaining about maintenance on? Commercial boats often get a couple of coats of tremclad outside , zero paint inside,then complain about maintenance.
My 29 year od paint job is as good as the day I put it on, except for the odd paint chip, where I do my 2 hours year on touch up. Any time you have serious problems in the middle of a flat spot on a steel hull , your paint was not thick enough to begin with. Any time you can see the weld pattern thru the paint, it was not thick enough to begin with.
Most maintenance problems on steel boats are caused by inadequate cleaning and sandblasting of the steel and not enough epoxy over it. When a boat gets to that stage , sandblasting and at least 5 coats of epoxy tar on the outside three inside and a UV resistant coat over that wil eliminate most of the maintenace for decades.
Don't think our problem with Nuthin Wong was the designed looks of it, but the evident lack of maintenance and general outfit. It 's quite obvious why it hits reefs all the time - It's not a sailing boat, it's an extremely badly maintained hulk of a motorboat with token masts.
/Joms
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  #96  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Clive has hit two reefs in 21 years of full time cruising around the world, one in the Balerics when he was aboard and one when he was thousands of miles away, and thief towed her onto a reef. Of the 38 boats I have built, the same number by Evan and all the many others people built for themselves, only 5 have had major collisions with reefs and lee shores . Sure, lots of people do circumnavigations in plastic and wooden boats with no problems . Some dissapear without a trace. One plastic boat I was tied to for a month, hit a container off Costa Rica and sunk in minutes, something which wouldnt have happened had she been steel. The owner immediately began planning to build in steel.
You can disregard the comments of Bob Perry anbd Smackdaddy, neither of whom has any experence in cruising in and maintaining a steel boat, yet both of whom claim to know more about the subject than someone who has built 38 steel boats and has maintained his own steel boats for 37 years. A sistership to Smackdaddys boat anchored in front of me last nite, a catalina 27, six inch side decks cluttered by chainplates , knee high super thin stainless stanchions held down by three tiny bolts each, with plastic coated wire lifelines a recipe for crevice corrosion. Definitely not intelligent design, chosen by someone displaying a similar abysmal lack of intelligence.
While many are out happily cruising in steel boats down to 26 feet, making passages times in the same time frame as most plastic boats, self proclaimed "Experts " on steel boats, who have zero expereince in the subject at hand, are declaring it "Wont work in smaller boats" ( Sorta like aeronautic experts of the past telling bees that, theoretically they cant fly)
I see that, after decades of painting rusty anchor recesses every time they came into port , cruise ship operators( Slow experts ) have finally clued in and are lining such surfaces with stainless, eliminating the problem once and for all. I do the same where the anchor dings the bow paint ,instead of the yachtie absurdity of ever longer and flimseir bow rollers. Ditto other wear points, something anyone with zero expereince maintaining a steel boat couldnt possibly comprehend
Commercial boats can do the same, and reduce maintenace greatly, by taking out the rail pipes etc, where it gets the paint knocked off repeatedly, and replacing such parts with stainess, for a fraction the cost of trying hopelessly to keep paint on them. Many of my newer boats have been going for all stainless bulkwark caps, instead of the yachtie absurdity of teak over steel. Where there are pulp mills there is cheap scrap stainless, some of the best in the world (unless you are like Bob, too snobby and pretentious to be that practical and resourceful)
My clients have had no complaints about maintenance, in fact they all say they have very little to do. I met a guy in New Zealand ( Nelson) who had a steel Matangi motorsailer he had built in Australia. He said that, after years of owning wood and fibreglass boats, he was amazed at how little mainenance his steel boat took.
Those who tell you they have tons of maintenance on their steel boats simply havent figured it out yet, and are thus a poor source of information on the subject. You'd be better off to get your advice from someone who has little maintenace on his steel boat.
I found out that, after owning my current steeel boat for 29 years I have learned a lot about designing and building for easy maitenance, than I had learned after owning my last steel boat for only 11 years. My current boat is in beter shape after 29 years than my last was in after only 11 years. People with zero expereince on the subject have zero knowledge or credibility. They simply repeat the disinformation spread by those trying to sell you plastic boats, or those perpetual screwups with screwed up paint jobs and planning on their steel boats

Last edited by Brent Swain; 07-08-2013 at 05:47 PM.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I trust my own experiences first and foremost, and the experiences of some of my personal friends that has many many years of cruising all over the World. And that experience tells me that Mr. Perry has something going for him (and SmackDaddy way less ). But this has nothing to do with having Bob Perry design a new boat, but about the plethora of GRP cruising boats (to his design and many other talented designers) that can take you crusing for next to nothing in comfort and safety.
What ticked me off with your comments is that everything you say implies that those of us that cruise in boats of any other material than steel are risking the lives of our loved ones and ourself. And we don't!

I have also learned the hard way which other cruisers to avoid, and Nuthin Wong ticks all the boxes.

/Joms
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
You can disregard the comments of Bob Perry anbd Smackdaddy, neither of whom has any experence in cruising in and maintaining a steel boat, yet both of whom claim to know more about the subject than someone who has built 38 steel boats and has maintained his own steel boats for 37 years.
Bob, my sincere apologies for the above sentence. It is, indeed, hilarious. But, even disregarding Brent's psychobabble, your reputation has nonetheless officially been sullied by the very proximity of your fine name next to mine in the same sentence.

Heh-heh.

Brent, I own a Hunter 40, you chucklehead.



The C27 was so yesterday. Keep up son!

(PS - I noticed you've not been able to come up with that quote you said I said on stuff, even after I provided you the links. Hmm. Does someone owe me an apology?)
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Bob, my sincere apologies for the above sentence. It is, indeed, hilarious. But, even disregarding Brent's psychobabble, your reputation has nonetheless officially been sullied by the very proximity of your fine name next to mine in the same sentence.

Heh-heh.

Brent, I own a Hunter 40, you chucklehead.



The C27 was so yesterday. Keep up son!

(PS - I noticed you've not been able to come up with that quote you said I said on stuff, even after I provided you the links. Hmm. Does someone owe me an apology?)
Come on Dude, I can tell from here thats an O'day 19.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Bob, my sincere apologies for the above sentence. It is, indeed, hilarious. But, even disregarding Brent's psychobabble, your reputation has nonetheless officially been sullied by the very proximity of your fine name next to mine in the same sentence.

Heh-heh.

Brent, I own a Hunter 40, you chucklehead.



The C27 was so yesterday. Keep up son!

(PS - I noticed you've not been able to come up with that quote you said I said on stuff, even after I provided you the links. Hmm. Does someone owe me an apology?)
Nope, that is not an O'day 19, that is a rowboat, or maybe some kind of steel skiff, just can't tell from here LOL.
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