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  #1011  
Old 09-12-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Sorry to actually post something on topic, but this is an interesting obsrvation on steel hulls taken from here: 4. Aground Once Again

Quote:
Tough Boat Story

My all-time favorite boat grounding story was one I witnessed in Suva, Fiji, during my around-the-world sail. One night a very tired French sailor approached the Suva harbor breakwater in the wee hours. Apparently fatigue got the best of him and he fell asleep before making it into the harbor. Because he was asleep, his boat was free to sail wherever it pleased, so it crashed into the breakwater's rocks.

During the night the boat got firmly stuck on the rocks, pounded by the open ocean swells breaking against the rocks and the boat. But this wasn't an ordinary boat — it had a steel hull. The boat withstood the pounding surf until daylight and the next high tide, at which point the boat could be floated off the rocks.

The sailor brought his boat into the harbor, dropped anchor, grabbed a ball peen hammer, went down into the bilge, and pounded out the dents. An hour's work, boat repaired. Steel hull. They have to be painted constantly to avoid rust, but they're very strong.
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  #1012  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Think no one can reasonably argue the benefits of steel as regards impact resistance. Issue for me is after spending 35+ years putting money aside to be able to "live the dream" is that the kind of boat I want to live on. I'm in the fairly common group who due to responsibilities to career/family/ others could not feel good about myself until I knew others dependent on me were settled. Hearing about Bob clients I think I don't have their resources. I'm I envious? No, I delight in seeing what works of art they are able tohelp create. After being knocked around I don't think I could deal with this discomforts BrentBoats imply and I know my wife would not. We like running the Webasto at night and the air during the day. We like being able to handle the boat effortlessly in any weather. The power winches are a dream as are the reefing systems. I enjoy a long hot shower coming off watch. I enjoy gourmet food self cooked and eating it while listening to Pachelbel. None of us are forced to live on a boat. To be able to do it with grace and beauty is a joy. There is a French couple in my marina. They have three children. One was borne on the boat. They are a delight. They live a minimalist lifestyle. They are fun to be with and I think they enjoy our company as well. We treat each others as equals although they clearly are much more experienced sailors whereas we have the various initials after our name some mistake for wisdom. If Brent realized by being less judgmental his life would improve and his wisdom would be shared to a greater extent this forum would be more helpful to us all.
Remain interested in seeing any performance data Brent make wish to share e.g. polars, basic statistics etc.
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  #1013  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Think no one can reasonably argue the benefits of steel as regards impact resistance. Issue for me is after spending 35+ years putting money aside to be able to "live the dream" is that the kind of boat I want to live on. I'm in the fairly common group who due to responsibilities to career/family/ others could not feel good about myself until I knew others dependent on me were settled. Hearing about Bob clients I think I don't have their resources. I'm I envious? No, I delight in seeing what works of art they are able tohelp create. After being knocked around I don't think I could deal with this discomforts BrentBoats imply and I know my wife would not. We like running the Webasto at night and the air during the day. We like being able to handle the boat effortlessly in any weather. The power winches are a dream as are the reefing systems. I enjoy a long hot shower coming off watch. I enjoy gourmet food self cooked and eating it while listening to Pachelbel. None of us are forced to live on a boat. To be able to do it with grace and beauty is a joy. There is a French couple in my marina. They have three children. One was borne on the boat. They are a delight. They live a minimalist lifestyle. They are fun to be with and I think they enjoy our company as well. We treat each others as equals although they clearly are much more experienced sailors whereas we have the various initials after our name some mistake for wisdom. If Brent realized by being less judgmental his life would improve and his wisdom would be shared to a greater extent this forum would be more helpful to us all.
Remain interested in seeing any performance data Brent make wish to share e.g. polars, basic statistics etc.
My life is absolutely wonderful, as good as it can get.. I only offer what decades of cruising, building steel cruising boats, and living aboard full time has taught me. If some one would rather get their advice from someone with no liveaboard, boatbuilding or long term cruising experience ,who advocates relying on "Cosmic Karma" , rather than personal building and cruising experience, then let them go ahead. I'd rather not deal with that kind of thinking.
One thing my clients have consistently told me is that their well insulated ,leak proof steel boat is the most comfortable dwelling they have ever lived in.

The topic "pros and cons of steel sailboats" cant be discussed well, without making comparisons with the alternative to steel, which is mainly plastic. This includes listing all the advantages of steel over plastic . Cant do that, without sounding negative on plastic.

Last edited by Brent Swain; 09-12-2013 at 07:11 PM.
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  #1014  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

A good demolition derby between steel and plastic happened in 82, when Bernard Moitessier's steel " Joshua" went aground in Cabo San Lucas. A larger fibreglass boat landed on top of her and disintegrated quickly . The Joshua is still sailing after minor repairs.
In 1975, 35 boats, mostly fibreglass, were wrecked in the Tuamotus. Most disintegrated in an hour or two. Trismus, a sister ship to Joshua, was abandoned after she filled with water thru a vent. Ten years later, the locals refloated her, and began using her for shipping coconuts around the lagoon. The skipper of Trismus, Patrick , was later lost without trace, while doing a transatlantic race in a plastic boat.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats








I am going to have to tell MS tommays are boat is both ugly and much to dangerous to keep using

She will most likely be upset that after 43 years it may fall apart at any second while we are sailing
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Hang on Tom and wear that PFD. And for the record your boat is a fine looking boat. Cal 29? One of my all time favorite boats.

Brent:
you sound like a tired old broken record. Whinging and whining with nothing new to bring to the table. Zero. I'll bring some new stuff soon when my PSC 62' ketch is a bit further along and my timber 28' "ED" design is "framed up" for planking.

"If some one would rather get their advice from someone with no liveaboard, boatbuilding or long term cruising experience ,who advocates relying on "Cosmic Karma" , rather than personal building and cruising experience, then let them go ahead. I'd rather not deal with that kind of thinking."

What do you mean "if" Brent? "IF"? Holy cow, look at the numbers. It's obvious that a lot of sailors do prefer my designs. You can count can't you? I realize you have problems with numbers. But stay on the defensive. We like you there. I'll stay working on my designs and on the offensive. I can be offensive. You keep fabricating facts and I'll be sure to stay offensive.

How about some photos of your fair hulls? Remember, your call, they have to be more fair than mine. I have a few photos I can post too. I have lots. Come on respond to one challenge with some reality for a change.

I'll go out and flog the water with my brand new Coho lure.
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  #1018  
Old 09-13-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
A good demolition derby between steel and plastic happened in 82, when Bernard Moitessier's steel " Joshua" went aground in Cabo San Lucas. A larger fibreglass boat landed on top of her and disintegrated quickly . The Joshua is still sailing after minor repairs.
In 1975, 35 boats, mostly fibreglass, were wrecked in the Tuamotus. Most disintegrated in an hour or two. Trismus, a sister ship to Joshua, was abandoned after she filled with water thru a vent. Ten years later, the locals refloated her, and began using her for shipping coconuts around the lagoon. The skipper of Trismus, Patrick , was later lost without trace, while doing a transatlantic race in a plastic boat.
Your numbers might be compelling if it weren't for the fact that for every one steel boat, there are 100K or more fiberglass boats plying the waters of the world...the vast majority never being smashed to bits at all.

You should stop swimming. It's possible to get that brain eating amoeba in your nose. Or ice cream, what about salmonella? You're living dangerously my friend.
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Old 09-13-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

The indestructability of Steel!. Note in this video the top secret articulating hull in action.
F/V Chevelle hard aground on Newport?s North Jetty ? breaking up in heavy swells » News Lincoln County
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Brent,

You need to stick to the truth: Joshua was a basically an empty Shell full of sand and Water after that, and Bernard gave the remains to a Swiss guy WHO needed several years to get her back on the Water Again.

At the same time several 'plastic' and wooden boats survived, but a lot also got beaten to pulp.

Your call.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
A good demolition derby between steel and plastic happened in 82, when Bernard Moitessier's steel " Joshua" went aground in Cabo San Lucas. A larger fibreglass boat landed on top of her and disintegrated quickly . The Joshua is still sailing after minor repairs.
In 1975, 35 boats, mostly fibreglass, were wrecked in the Tuamotus. Most disintegrated in an hour or two. Trismus, a sister ship to Joshua, was abandoned after she filled with water thru a vent. Ten years later, the locals refloated her, and began using her for shipping coconuts around the lagoon. The skipper of Trismus, Patrick , was later lost without trace, while doing a transatlantic race in a plastic boat.
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