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  #1081  
Old 09-15-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Why this ever became a comparison/dogfight between cost conscious cruising and new custom designs from Bob Perry is beyond me. It was about the advantages of steel, and then BS claimed that his was the cheapest way to go cruising - although he later admitted that GRP was cheaper.

So to summarize.
  • If you want to be a cost conscious cruiser now, go in a proven GRP boat (and if You're in North America you'd do well to pick a Perry design, however You'd be hard pressed to find one in Europe).
  • If you have the Money get a custom designed boat (Again Bob would probably be a great choice)
  • If you're in between the two scenarios, and have the time. money, and inclination to build yourself, go for a BS design that by the very nature of the material/build/design will be less of a sailing machine than the above.

Another Family that barely survived their World cruise: The Yacht » Gunvør XL
They did the World ARC (which I wouldn't have), they had the Money to do it in an expensive boat (which I don't), and in a fast boat (which I think is a great choice) so horses for courses.
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  #1082  
Old 09-15-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Exactly!
I don't give a rat's patootey what you sail. I am glad as hell that it isn't a "Bob or Brent" world. That would be very boring. I am good friends with lots of other designers. We all have our niche and we respect each other's work. When we get together we give each other a hard time for the fun of it but there is that layer of respect that joins us as a group. Can't see BS fitting into that group with his exclusionary and narrow attitudes.
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  #1083  
Old 09-15-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by JomsViking View Post
Why this ever became a comparison/dogfight between cost conscious cruising and new custom designs from Bob Perry is beyond me. It was about the advantages of steel, and then BS claimed that his was the cheapest way to go cruising - although he later admitted that GRP was cheaper.

So to summarize.
  • If you want to be a cost conscious cruiser now, go in a proven GRP boat (and if You're in North America you'd do well to pick a Perry design, however You'd be hard pressed to find one in Europe).
  • If you have the Money get a custom designed boat (Again Bob would probably be a great choice)
  • If you're in between the two scenarios, and have the time. money, and inclination to build yourself, go for a BS design that by the very nature of the material/build/design will be less of a sailing machine than the above.

Another Family that barely survived their World cruise: The Yacht » Gunvør XL
They did the World ARC (which I wouldn't have), they had the Money to do it in an expensive boat (which I don't), and in a fast boat (which I think is a great choice) so horses for courses.
Good summary!

I would add the following...

- If your in the in between, and you like the idea of steel, have looked at aluminium and dismissed it for reasons probably to do with cost, and you want to build yourself, then Brent Swain is one of several options, I would suggest that there are designs in steel that offer the advantages of the material with better performance.

I would look at

Van De Stadt Yacht Designs

Graham Radford designs

Grahame Shannon

Dudley Dix Designs

Bruce Roberts
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  #1084  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Joms:
I wasn't going to sit here and just let BS trash the world of boats that I love and have provided me with a good living for almost 40 years. I chose to counter the BS and total fabrication of facts from Brent and represent the other side. Maybe that's why it becamse a "dog fight".
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  #1085  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Bob you contributed positively and provided a lot of great info, but we all got in a fight with Brent, even those of us that know and respects steel.
So don't take my ramblings as anything else

My problem is that Brent most likely could be a great contributor IF he changed his ways.

/Joms

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Joms:
I wasn't going to sit here and just let BS trash the world of boats that I love and have provided me with a good living for almost 40 years. I chose to counter the BS and total fabrication of facts from Brent and represent the other side. Maybe that's why it becamse a "dog fight".
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  #1086  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by JomsViking View Post
Bob you contributed positively and provided a lot of great info, but we all got in a fight with Brent, even those of us that know and respects steel.
So don't take my ramblings as anything else

My problem is that Brent most likely could be a great contributor IF he changed his ways.

/Joms
+1

Basically having Bob refute Brent's crap with facts and truth blew his little world to pieces and the best he could do was to start insulting Bob's wife.

There are plenty of us that understand steel, like steel, have modest boats that we do sail on a budget (so are NOT armchair sailors despite Brent's insults to the contrary) yet we strongly disagree with Brent's stand on this.

You would think that would give Brent a hint.

I would personally love to hear more about his first adventure out into the Pacific in his twenties.

I would love to even here about his boats if he could do so without attacking...

- Fibreglass
- Any and all other steel boat designers
- Any and all all other Aluminium boat designers & builders
- Bob Perry
- Bob Perry's wife
- Beneteau/Hunter/Catalina
- Block manufacturers
- West Marine ( actually anyone who sells any marine related product)
- People who paint their boats
- Smack( actually ok it's fine to swipe Smack occasionally)
- Sailnet Mods
- Any and all other sailing forums he has participated on
- His own clients
- Bob's clients
- People who use Marinas rather than paddocks
- People who like to snorkel reefs rather than hit them
- Anyone who didn't decide to go cruising in their 20's
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  #1087  
Old 09-15-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Oh yeah, I forgot about the attack on my wife. That was a really low point Brent's "argument".

I'm not sure why there is an "argument".

I have been fortunate to have been the technical editor for SAILING magazine for the past 35 years. It's a funny story how I got the job but I have enjoyed it a lot. Each month I get to study three or four new designs from other designers. This has been a tremendous help to me in my own design work. I am constantly exposed to what's new and different in the world of yacht design. It's fun and eye opening at times.

My point being, I have no problem at all with the work of others if I think it is quality work regardless of the genre or the material. But when presented with shoddy design work I tell my editor, rather than review and trash the design, "No thanks, I won't review that design."


So, I say to anyone who thinks I have a narrow view of the world of yacht design , " You have not been paying attention." If you still doubt what I am saying you can buy volumes one through five of my reviews from SAILING magazine. There you can find many years of me having fun looking at the work of other designers.

I am not exclusionary. I am not an elitist. I'm just a guy who loves boats of all kinds.

Here is a link to a ferro cement boat I designed when I was 26 years old. My second design that was built. It's still going strong today and to my eye looking pretty darn handsome. Not bad work for a kid.

Taken from CA:
Is it true. "Custom Ferro-Cement Ketch (Robert Perry design),"

http://www.yachtworl...da#.UjSwMmTF1vY
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Last edited by bobperry; 09-15-2013 at 09:29 AM.
  #1088  
Old 09-15-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I joined this thread just a couple weeks ago, so I was not aware that Brent attacked Bob's wife. That pretty much says it all for me about Brent.

I personally know Bob's wife very well, she is a lovely wonderful person. My wife and I are very very fond of her.

I can not imagine any rational reason to attack her.
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  #1089  
Old 09-15-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by kimbottles View Post
I joined this thread just a couple weeks ago, so I was not aware that Brent attacked Bob's wife. That pretty much says it all for me about Brent.

I personally know Bob's wife very well, she is a lovely wonderful person. My wife and I are very very fond of her.

I can not imagine any rational reason to attack her.
Then again, most husbands choose the correct spouse, not sure why the wives choose us?!?! that includes mr bp's spouse! or mine, or td's or..............
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  #1090  
Old 09-15-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Kim:
Brent has never met my wife. I don't post photos of her so he can't know what she looks like. But he was and remains desperate and that was the best he could do.

I was inclined to come back with my own Witty and erudite, "Your mother wears combat boots" but I though better of it.

Thunder! I like it.
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