Pros and cons of steel sailboats - Page 120 - SailNet Community
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post #1191 of 5317 Old 09-19-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

No kidding. I think this Marketing Program post really has him rattled. He's kind of freakin' out. I guess no one's ever really nailed him down like this before.

According to his bastardized quote of yours above, he thinks people will believe that I changed his words. That's the beauty of it though, I couldn't make that crap up if I tried!


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post #1192 of 5317 Old 09-20-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

This thread has become such a pathetic juvenile personal attack that it has lost any real value of the pros and cons of steel or any thing relating to intelligent comparison. Better the participants just put their peckers on the table and let some passing whore decide the measure of your maleness. At least it would be just as educational and perhaps oddly entertaining. As sailors we should at least be able to recognize shallow.
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post #1193 of 5317 Old 09-20-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Len View Post
This thread has become such a pathetic juvenile personal attack that it has lost any real value of the pros and cons of steel or any thing relating to intelligent comparison. Better the participants just put their peckers on the table and let some passing whore decide the measure of your maleness. At least it would be just as educational and perhaps oddly entertaining. As sailors we should at least be able to recognize shallow.
Have to agree. I actually started reading the thread to read about steel boats, how foolish. Then I started reading the pissing battle. Now I read it because it is like looking at a car crash.

Don't blow air up my rear, be useful and blow it at the sails!
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post #1194 of 5317 Old 09-20-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Been off this thread for a few days (taking my life in my hands sailing my plastic boat with a spade rudder). A few pages back BS discussed wheelhouses and disparaged dodgers. Would wish to return to pros and cons. This time concerning dodgers and wheelhouses as BS made statements I feel cannot be justified.
My hard dodger with two layers of safety glass and a film between gives great visibility. With divinylcell core and significant layup on either side is extremely strong. In spite of that it is light with little impact on righting moment.
The dodger has two opening hatches above for good ventilation when necessary and detachable fabric to cover the glass which one can see thro but not in which decreases thermal heating from the sun when needed.
The dodger extends into the cockpit for several feet giving COMPLETE protection at all angles of sail except DDW when of course apparent wind is less. In combination with my hard bimini ( also cored construction) even DDW protection is quite good. Have an insert between the two for rain etc.
I may not have BS's extensive experience but have some and abstract the following.
Wheelhouses take you out of the environment. Under a hard dodger you are comfortable but still ready to tend your boat in a moments notice without constantly donning and disrobing your foulies. You are more likely to keep your sails in trim. You are more likely to be alert to changes in the sea state or your vessel.
I commonly sleep under my hard dodger while the bride stands watch. We take most of our meals there as well.

There is a 4" SS post in the center of my spade rudder. It bears on several sets of main bearings several feet apart. Some have been built with carbon fibre. The supporting structure extends above the waterline. Properly designed a spade rudder can be as strong as a skeg rudder. Carl clearly did this in my boat and I'm sure Bob's boats are the same. One sistership was built with a skeg. It was a failure and I believe refitted with a spade. BS's statements about performance of spade v. skeg rudders is simple wrong and more bs as evidenced by simple physics and the fact no current race boat have skeg rudders.

I like wheelhouses such as done on the Hiltenholter boats and the dutch aluminium boats but Brents blanket condemnation of hard dodgers is misplaced as for individuals interested in actively sailing their boats to get best vmg a hard dodger may make better sense.
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Last edited by outbound; 09-20-2013 at 07:44 AM.
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post #1195 of 5317 Old 09-20-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Out, I couldn't agree more on the pros of a hard dodger. Are you ever going to be happy with your setup when you get to the tropics! I also have a hard dodger (divinycell sandwich construction) and it's a godsend- keeping me dry, out of the sun and protected from wind and spray when underway. I think it's as good as a wheelhouse, in the tropics at least. When you're on autopilot/wind vane (most of the time) you can curl up under the dodger and just keep an eye on things. Have you got an opening hatch in the windscreen as well? It's great for ventilation.
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post #1196 of 5317 Old 09-20-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I came here to contribute and not to defend my life's work from ridiculous personal attacks. And yes, it has become pathetic. So I'll leave you to BS.

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post #1197 of 5317 Old 09-20-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

In many cases the hard vs soft dodger is a moot point... I think very few people ever fold/take down their 'soft' dodger anyhow, and as mentioned with good technique the weight is a non issue. Beyond that, as long as the dodger complements the boats' lines and doesn't become an unsightly block, the hard version will never fade, sag, leak or lose its stitching to UV....

The bigger questions may be why aren't there more of them. I do see more and more hybrids, hard top and canvas sides on a standard SS frame.

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post #1198 of 5317 Old 09-20-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Ron, the advantage of a full hard dodger, as I see it, is that it's part of the deck/cabin structure as can't leak and, as you mention, it's as durable as the boat itself. There are other advantages like being able to stand on the dodger to tie down a sail cover and to mount solar panels, antennas, radar domes and lights. The trick, as you point out, is getting it to look right, especially when it's an add-on after the boat was built. I believe that Perry fellow might know a thing or two about that....

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post #1199 of 5317 Old 09-20-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by Capt Len View Post
Better the participants just put their peckers on the table and let some passing whore decide the measure of your maleness. At least it would be just as educational and perhaps oddly entertaining.
Quite an imagination there Len.


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post #1200 of 5317 Old 09-20-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Unfortunately would have had to redesign traveler placement/mainsheet so windows do not open. Find with hatches opening forward and having the two ways to secure ( secure and opened a crack or fully closed) I can leave them open even with green water on deck and keep the interior of dodger dry. Of course in pleasant air they open fully. Saw this product from Sunbrella on some big sport fish. It's a fabric that comes in several densities. All block sun/heat from coming in but allow you to see out. Hoping it works in tropics/sub tropics but hear good things about it. Will see. Like the idea of clear not tinted glass to allow good night vision and ability to dodge debris/lobster traps when needed. So fabric will be taken off while underway especially coastal.

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Last edited by outbound; 09-20-2013 at 09:57 AM.
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