Pros and cons of steel sailboats - Page 124 - SailNet Community
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post #1231 of 5317 Old 09-22-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

"The first disagreement I had with Bob was when he stated that any sailboat with a wheelhouse was a motor sailer even those without a motor of any kind."


Uhhh, right there Brent. Why invent such silly things?

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post #1232 of 5317 Old 09-22-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
The first disagreement I had with Bob was when he stated that any sailboat with a wheelhouse was a motor sailer even those without a motor of any kind.
The first one on this site was when he attacked Jeff for suggesting an outboard rudder , and proposed something inboard, far less structurally sound and simple , complicating the hell out of self steering.
One of the reasons I was banned from cruisers forums was for telling people that they are under no legal obligation in Canada to open the hatch for any water cop coming alongside . On that site, advocating sucking up to those who violate your civil rights is permitted , telling people what their right are is considered too political . Right wing posts are encouraged and not considered political . It's a cop and cop wanabe site. When a moderator, who doesn't cruise the BC coast, and doesn't even live here, started giving false information about cruising the BC coast in winter , something I have been doing for over 40 years, I corrected his disinformation ,which didn't make me popular. The contempt of A-holes is the sincerest form of flattery. I wasn't going to let any cruiser suffer the cost of disinformation , in winter.
Bob, to his credit, was also banned from that site. Smack lies again( and again and again, etc. etc.)
Cruisers are being screwed up all too often by disinformation (much from inexperienced arm chair experts like Smack)
No, I don't feel guilty about correcting it, and defending the interests of cruisers.
Bob said my boats are ugly and lumpy. Anyone can check out the origamiboats site, and the photos section, and see some of the best looking steel cruising boats anywhere, fair as any, from bare steel to finished, no filler necessary, quickly proving Bob's comments a deliberate lie .
So from that point on, why would anyone believe anything else he has to say?
The 50 thru hulls on a Beneteau was typo on my part. Bob is no stranger to typos . Anyone can cheaply buy one of the white plastic thru hulls, hit it with a hammer, to check out the point I make. The only other two I have been banned from, by the same person, in the same day , was a moderator advocating such flimsy plastic thru hulls or complex mild steel ones impossible to maintain, , when I pointed out that stainless
pipe nipples welded in have given me no problems for decades and dozens of boats . I was told the reason for me being banned was for disagreeing with people. No one was banned for disagreeing with me. Friends who checked out that site said, they saw absolutely nothing which would remotely justify me being banned on either of those sites. Subsequently I was invited by Sully to participate in his site, due to my posts( cruising.stuffiminto.com)
Banned from three, by ego maniac moderators is not banned from all. I have participated on many others, I just got invited, by the owner, to participate on Sealegacy.com ,an interesting site, which has gone viral.
On Cruising.stuffiminto.com, Smack lies again ( and again and again and again) So why would anyone keep believing him on any issue? He even admitted he has no credibility!
Bob, with Smack's invitation followed me to cruising.stuffiminto.com. to continue their childish harrassment campaign against me, and they were quickly called on it.

I don't have the time for all the sites I'm signed up on.
You're funny.

I never knew Cruiser's Forum meant this kind of cruiser:



You get banned more than me! And that's saying something!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
On Cruising.stuffiminto.com, Smack lies again ( and again and again and again) So why would anyone keep believing him on any issue? He even admitted he has no credibility!
Brent, it's simple. Just because you say I'm lying about something doesn't mean, by any stretch of the imagination, that I'm lying. As a matter of fact, when you say it, most people question it right off the bat. It's that credibility thing.

Why?

Look at your marketing compilation I put together, dude. That says it all. Of course, now it's all about "typos", or "hacked quotes", etc. None of it is what you "meant to say". Sorry dude. They're your words. You have to live by them. And that's a hard life.

Feel free to put a compilation together for all my "lies". I'm happy to take a look at what you come up with.

BTW - I'd like a video of you banging on your through-hulls with a hammer. I'd like to see just how strong they really are. I'm pretty comfortable in saying that no through-hull in the world was designed to be beaten on with a hammer.


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post #1233 of 5317 Old 09-22-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Unpainted aluminium in the tropics gets hot enough to fry eggs on. I had to paint the back of my aluminium dinghy white inside, so it wouldn't burn my feet. A couple I met in Tonga, in an unpainted aluminium boat, said it took them til2 AM to get to sleep because of the heat buildup during the day. It's extremely difficult to find effective antifouling paint which wont have electrolysis problems with aluminium. Aluminium welding is only 60% the strength of the surrounding metal while steel is 100%. Its far easier to screws up an aluminium weld , steel is far more forgiving and far less expensive. When the steel for my 36 was $3800 the aluminium was $20,000.
Most 36 ft steel boats are lighter than many plastic hulls, such as Westsails, Cape George cutters, Herreschoff Nerias, Ingrids, etc.
Steel is more corrosion prone above the waterline , where you can see it. and easily deal with it. Aluminium is more corrosion prone below the waterline , and happens more quickly, where it can go along way before you notice it.
Some boats have been built in steel with aluminium cabin tops, which while being trickier, can save weight up high. I just replaced a plywood cabin top with aluminium, on a steel boat this spring . Worked out well.
Steel is far more abrasion resistant on coral or rocks should you go aground and is far more floating container resistant. You can build an engine driven portable welder for steel for under $50. Aluminium welding is far more complex .
Check out the origamiboats site ( yahoo groups ) for more info.
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post #1234 of 5317 Old 09-23-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Well, I had to actually do some work the last few weeks, an inconvenience to be sure, and I was away, but it seems not much is changed. BS has been up to his usual crazy claims, and Bob and Smack have been keeping up the challenges for him to at least attempt to be truthful, I see it has not worked, but it has been entertaining.

I will not be on as much, work has its drawbacks LOL. I wish you all well, and enjoy reading the discussions as often as I can, fair winds.

Mark

It is good to learn from your mistakes, but much better to learn from the mistakes of others...
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post #1235 of 5317 Old 09-23-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

See you soon Mark. It's good to be busy.

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post #1236 of 5317 Old 09-23-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I haven't seen a single post from Smack which provides a fraction the information in that post. He provides only disinformation.

The original question was pros and cons of steel sailboats . You interpreted that to mean cons only, no pros allowed( pun intended).
I mentioned the toughness of Gringo , Trismus, Joshua , Pygmalion, etc etc.
No I didn't design or have anything to do with those boats, as you imply. You claim me giving any pros of steel boat amounts to self promotion , as if I were the only person on the planet building or designing steel boats. So would the reverse be true , any criticism of steel boats would amount to self promotion by Bob ( as if he were the only person on the planet designing plastic boats?)
Plastic is the best choice of material for "occasional use "boats , as I have stated many times, but among full time, experienced cruisers ,the percentage of steel boats rises considerably , and many in plastic boats would rather be in steel boats, as was so clearly pointed out in Jimmy Cornell's interviews with circumnavigators in his book "Modern Ocean Cruising."
For long term cruising, I would put more faith in circumnavigators, than in armchair experts, with little or no long term cruising experience, especially those with zero such experience in steel boats .
Almost all advocates of steel boat pros not being allowed in this debate, have one thing in common. Zero steel boat building or long term cruising experience in steel boats.

Hammering on a plastic thru hull, then on a welded in stainless one, is a clear, undeniable demonstration of the relative strengths of each . Those who advocate against testing a plastic one, don't want to know how fragile they are.
Mark would imply that any such test which told us which was strongest, would be "Untruthful" if it didn't say what he wanted it to say.
Ostriches don't burry their heads in the sand to avoid the obvious. People do!

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"

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post #1237 of 5317 Old 09-23-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
I haven't seen a single post from Smack which provides a fraction the information in that post. He provides only disinformation.
When you say I provide "disinformation", you have to remember that that post consists of your words, not mine. And that really seems to bother you. I'm glad you're finally admitting that there are some issues. It's an important step.

If you WANT to provide information that is useful, provide a worst-case, full budget for building and fitting out one of your 36' boats (worst-case meaning the builder is not spending years scrounging the dump for free stuff, but buying what is needed as thriftily as possible). We've already seen the figure of $35K...prior to being fitted out with equipment, instruments etc. So the $50K budget seems roughly accurate (though I honestly think an average builder would spend more than that all-in). A detailed spreadsheet with these numbers from you would certainly help a wannabe cruiser weigh the pros vs. cons of building a steel boat.

So...are you going to help that wannabe cruiser? Or just leave him hanging?


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post #1238 of 5317 Old 09-23-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Brent's on the warpath again. I think I'll take the cut off at the pass before his arrows catch up to me.

Quit being silly Brent. Relax, chill enjoy your success. You don't need this knee jerk defensiveness to prove your point. Most of us are not going to go out and beat on our hulls with hammers. But don't let me stop you. Whatever turns you on.

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post #1239 of 5317 Old 09-24-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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You're funny.

I never knew Cruiser's Forum meant this kind of cruiser:


Wow ! My first car was a 1963 Galaxie 500 (2door) Thanks for jogging the memory smack.
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post #1240 of 5317 Old 09-25-2013
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Talking Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Think I'm never getting another boat but if I do Monel is looking better and better ( tongue in cheek)

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