Pros and cons of steel sailboats - Page 126 - SailNet Community
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post #1251 of 5317 Old 09-26-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Jon:
I can't tell you and I'm not sure Kim knows yet. Quite a few. Not sure if Kim even wants to know. But he is used to managing the money on big construction jobs so he is pretty fastideous when it comes to the money side of things. Maybe he'll chime in here. SDeems to me that aroiund four guys workjed for a wweek oin the hull fairing. The deck didn't need any fairing as it came out of a female mold and the mold was faired.

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post #1252 of 5317 Old 09-26-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Many many hours. This is my pet project and I am not cutting any corners on it, but BS can relax, there is no debt involved in this project (except I am in Bob's debt for doing such an outstanding design.)
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post #1253 of 5317 Old 09-26-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

That is sweet music to my ears.

See if you can spot the thru hull fittings.
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Last edited by bobperry; 09-26-2013 at 12:02 PM.
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post #1254 of 5317 Old 09-26-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Jon:
I can't tell you and I'm not sure Kim knows yet. Quite a few. Not sure if Kim even wants to know. But he is used to managing the money on big construction jobs so he is pretty fastideous when it comes to the money side of things. Maybe he'll chime in here. SDeems to me that aroiund four guys workjed for a wweek oin the hull fairing. The deck didn't need any fairing as it came out of a female mold and the mold was faired.
A man-month on the hull is not bad at all - I've seen way more than that go into a car body.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #1255 of 5317 Old 09-26-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Land living is borrowing money to buy what you don't need to impress people you don't like. Some take that kind of thinking to the sea, sadly.
Geesh! You really just don't like anyone do you? Everyone that has a different opinion from you is WRONG. Anyone that thinks exactly like you is ENLIGHTENED.

How do you have any customers with an attitude like that? I would think it just a matter of time before even your biggest supporters didn't live up to your purity.

PS: I am a person that lived in a subsistence village for years in a VERY small cabin with kids, dogs etc. So understand that your generalizations just offend even those that may agree with you on some topics of the failings of society.

And one thing you simply do not calculate. I have skills that are marketable. Large sailboat building is not one of them. It makes more sense for some people to do what they are good at, make money, then purchase a boat from someone that is good at that. Financially it often makes no sense to build your own, or even get into a major fixer uper, when you can work in your chosen field and come out ahead. Exceptions;

A. You drop out of society in your 20s and never really develop high value skills. Sorry Brent, but the way your data in this discussion is layed out it seems very much amateurish. You are repeatedly asked for hard numbers and you deliver anecdotal evidence. This is not the sign of a true professional. Don't get me wrong, I don't fault someone that makes your choices, but it is hard for them to join a conversation with someone like Bob and have credibility while tossing around the kinda attacks you are posting.

B. You just enjoy the work for the sake of it (For example I build small boats as I find it fun and relaxing. Financially it makes no sense when you add up the man hours compared to what I would have made working in my field more. In fact I could buy lots of kayaks if I converted that time spent into money.

There are many people on this site that were supporting you at the beginning of this thread but you have stepped on everyone's opinions in the process of supporting your own. The easiest way in business to loose is to talk endlessly about what is wrong with the competition instead of touting the advantages of your own products. This thread will damage your business more than help, and that is sad because it could have been a big boost for you. Most (if not all) people get exhausted from endless negativity and just move on to someone less depressing.
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post #1256 of 5317 Old 09-26-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Interesting thread for me because my other hobby is cycling. Actually, it's more than a hobby, it's how I get to work. Anyway, in a cycling forum I belong to the merits of frame materials are debated constantly. Whether it's steel, aluminum, titanium, carbon fiber, or even bamboo.

Usually the discussion doesn't devolve into this level of mud-slinging though. Can't say I'm impressed, not that anyone should particularly care what I think.

The more level headed in the cycling forums seem to be in agreement that though various materials have their pros and cons, it comes down to matching the appropriate bike with the needs of the cyclist and that it's good to have choices.

Even more important than what the bike is made out of is how it is designed, built and maintained.

And even more important than that, is person who's riding it. Ultimately it's the rider that plays the biggest role in how the bike performs. It seems to me that this is also true of sailing. Ultimately having a good sailing experience comes down to what's between your ears. The best boat in the world can not compensate for a skipper that doesn't know what they're doing.

I'm thoroughly convinced that there are wood, steel, aluminum, and glass boats in the world that I would be more than happy to call my own.

Last edited by unimacs; 09-26-2013 at 02:02 PM.
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post #1257 of 5317 Old 09-26-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
I know these pics are not very exciting to most people but the FRANCIS LEE is fully "tented" in the yard right now to keep it clean while painting proceeds. So, I can't get any good photos right now. But these two shots of the bootstripe show just how fair the hull is. Look at the reflections of the scaffolding in the topsides.
.
That is a very interesting pic. The reflection really does give you a great view of any faults (which of course there are none ) Makes me consider creating a grid to reflect off of jobs when fairing kayaks to use the straight lines as a way to see problems. Cool pic!
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post #1258 of 5317 Old 09-26-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Uni:
I would totally agree with you.
You'd get along well with Kim. He's a big time bike racer.

MC:
thanks for chiming in. I enjoyed your posts. Kids and dogs?
My kind of guy.
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post #1259 of 5317 Old 09-26-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by unimacs View Post
Interesting thread for me because my other hobby is cycling. Actually, it's more than a hobby, it's how I get to work. Anyway, in a cycling forum I belong to the merits of frame materials are debated constantly. Whether it's steel, aluminum, titanium, carbon fiber, or even bamboo......

...........And even more important than that, is person who's riding it. Ultimately it's the rider that plays the biggest role in how the bike performs............
Same here, cycling is my other activity.......former serious racer.....I have steel, titanium and carbon bikes, never cared for aluminum bikes, but don't have a problem with others who ride them. To each his own.

Here I am climbing Alpe d'Huez
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post #1260 of 5317 Old 09-26-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Same here, cycling is my other activity.......former serious racer.....I have steel, titanium and carbon bikes, never cared for aluminum bikes, but don't have a problem with others who ride them. To each his own.

Here I am climbing Alpe d'Huez
Sweet picture! I am not nearly so accomplished, - my competitions being limited to a few triathlons but I love the simplicity and the grace of a bike. I'm sure there's some connection there between that and my love of sailing. Both activities can be both relaxing and exhilarating.
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