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  #121  
Old 07-09-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Also check the passage times of The Silas Crosby.Not quite 2700 nm in 15 days type boat.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Smack, I was just looking at your boat on the blog thingy, dude, that is a good deal and it is a fine looking boat. Hope you guys enjoy it a lot, and at least you know it will not have huge rust stains running down from the scuppers like some other kind of boat might have... well might have if it was finished.
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  #123  
Old 07-13-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Sucker! Heh-heh.

Look, I'm not just winding things up here. Brent has made a hell of a lot of claims and taken a hell of a lot of shots at people across many forums. Most of these claims have been about his boats - many of them have been about stuff people have supposedly said. And the majority of them just don't add up.

So, according to your own signature line from that fine philosopher, I'm checking sources, doing some research on Brent's claims. If they stand up to scrutiny, I am indeed just winding things up. If not, I'm learning something for myself just like any Cruiser Wannabe should do. Thus far, those claims are not doing so well.

For example, with Brent's quotes above (and elsewhere) - would a typical Cruiser Wannabe surmise that it's pretty cheap to buy the plans/DVD for a BS Boat, pretty quick and easy to get the boat put together, and pretty cheap to complete her and sail her for the rest of your life with extremely low maintenance time and costs if you're just resourceful?

I think yes.

But then you start looking through what's actually out there (my examples above), and what it takes to get it done - and the reality is very different from this picture.

For example, take the vaunted Silas Crosby: the boat | s/v silas crosby

Brent's quote above talks about pulling the exterior of a boat together in 6 days. But what comes after that 6 days of roughing things out? Well, according to the Silas Crosby guy, this:



And this isn't even a cost breakdown.

Does that Cruiser Wannabe lining up for plans know what he's really getting into? The tools. The multi-discipline know-how. The multi-year time commitment. The substantial financial investment. ALL before ever getting to sail a single mile?

So, no. I'm not just winding things up here. I'm trying to figure out what Brent is talking about. Because it's not these boats.
There is no way I worked 500 hours on that boat . Did most of it in the month of June 1992, then went sailing for the rest of the summer. Steve worked part time on her, while working as a doctor in Courtenay. Being a doctor who had just sold a Spencer 35 he had sailed to New Zealand and back ,he could afford to buy new what most would have time to find used.
The steel for the keels is a 8 ft by 12 ft 1/4 inch plate and the half inch bottoms , 6 inches wide by 6 ft long , about 1,000 lbs in total for the steel. It would take more of your AIG , Enron style, creative calculating to make it 2,000 lbs. The plans don't call for the extra 500 lbs of ballast and Steve is the only one who has put that much in. Steve made the boat a part time hobby, mixing boat building with, hiking in the mountains, skiing , cross country and downhill, and many other family activities along with working. He knows how to enjoy life.
Rowland towed his 36, ballasted , all steel work done , to Edmonton . He said the govt scales said it was 15,000 lbs, total.
I launched my 31 a month after the steel arrived in 84. The folks at Newcastle marina can confirm that. Winston Bushnell can confirm that.
I had $4,000 to my name, total when I ordered the steel, then $40 when I launched her. Then I made another $2,000 to detail rig and get her liveable, by october the same year after having puled Uller and Moon Raven together in June of that year. The folks on Cortes Island can confirm that.
I spent three weeks in Winnipeg building Ron Rietsma's boat which sails on lake Winnipeg. In those three weeks I got most of the steel work done including the mast, self steering , all deck details, tankage , lifelines handrails hatches , etc etc in effect all the steel detailing as well. I was only there for three weeks. Commercial builders charge a fortune for that amount of work or much less, in the way of detailing.
Sure, some, who don't have a lot of money, will be stupid enough to to buy everything new , salvage nothing, despite our being awash in perfectly good used gear with absolutely nothing wrong with it, then complain about the cost of everything. Some will spend their working time smoking dope and drinking, or taking trips to Asia the west Indies, etc, do. doing nothing on the boat for years on end, then complain about how long it is taking,Some have. Others have spent years without setting foot on the boat, making babies, surfing , traveling . skiing etc, but that is not my fault. I have only claimed that one CAN get a boat together quickly without it costing a fortune. Many of my clients have accomplished that. I never claimed that my boats build themselves.
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Last edited by Brent Swain; 08-01-2013 at 10:44 PM.
  #124  
Old 07-13-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
There is no way I worked 500 hours on that boat . Did most of it in the month of June 1992, then went sailing for the rest of the summer. Steve worked part time on her, while working as a doctor in Courtenay. Being a doctor who had just sold a Spencer 35 he had sailed to New Zealand and back ,he could afford to buy new what most would have time to find used.
The steel for the keels is a 8 ft by 12 ft 1/4 inch plate and the half inch bottoms , 6 inches wide by 6 ft long , about 1,000 lbs in total for the steel. It would take more of your AIG , Enron style, creative calculating to make it 2,000 lbs. The plans don't call for the extra 500 lbs of ballast and Steve is the only one who has put that much in. Rowland towed his 36, ballasted , all steel work done , to Edmonton . He said the govt scales said it was 15,000 lbs, total.
I launched my 31 a month after the steel arrived in 84. The folks at Newcastle marina can confirm that. Winston Bushnell can confirm that.
I had $4,000 to my name, total when I ordered the steel, then $40 when I launched her. Then I made another $2,000 to detail rig and get her liveable, by october the same year after having puled Uller and Moon Raven together in June of that year. The folks on Cortes Island can confirm that.
I spent three weeks in Winnipeg building Ron Rietsma's boat which sails on lake Winnipeg. In those three weeks I got most of the steel work done including the mast, self steering , all deck details, tankage , lifelines handrails hatches , etc etc in effect all the steel detailing as well. I was only there for three weeks. Commercial builders charge a fortune for that amount of work or much less, in the way of detailing.
Sure, some will be stupid enough to to buy everything new , salvage nothing, despite our being awash in perfectly good used gear with absolutely nothing wrong with it, then complain about the cost of everything. Some will end spend their working time smoking dope and drinking, doing nothing on the boat for years on end, then complain about how long it is taking, some have, others have spent years without setting foot on the boat, making babies, surfing , traveling . skiing etc, but that is not my fault. I have only claimed that one CAN get a boat together quickly without it costing a fortune. Many of my clients have accomplished that. I never claimed that my boats build themselves.
Wow. Those are some harsh words about your own customers: Liars, stupid rich people who will buy anything, dope smokers, and boozers?

I thought these were the "friends" that you like to quote so often. I guess you only quote them if they fit into your BS narrative? Or maybe you change up their actual stories to fit your BS narrative hoping people are too lazy to look up the actual facts?

The 2,000lbs wasn't my calculation bro, it was your customer's. He's lying Enron-style?

Keep digging.
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 07-13-2013 at 08:08 PM.
  #125  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Wow. Those are some harsh words about your own customers: Liars, stupid rich people who will buy anything, dope smokers, and boozers?

I thought these were the "friends" that you like to quote so often. I guess you only quote them if they fit into your BS narrative? Or maybe you change up their actual stories to fit your BS narrative hoping people are too lazy to look up the actual facts?

The 2,000lbs wasn't my calculation bro, it was your customer's. He's lying Enron-style?

Keep digging.
Smack,

I think he will have to make a U-Turn pretty soon, he already dug to China, the return trip is about over too, so I guess he will go off on a new tangent...probably come up in Australia this time.
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  #126  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Brent I didn't see it that way. I saw your post as an honest description of what it takes to operate in your world. Not pretty but real. I could relate. When you said, " $40 when I launched her. " I remembered the time when I was working in Boston when I literally had to count the change in my pocket to see what I could buy for dinner. Beans? How many? Six beans? Nine beans?

I hated that. Well,,,I didn't hate it. It was just the life I had chosen. But I knew that I would never be happy in that world. I knew my work was valuable and damn it I was going to get paid a reasonable living. I am happy with the result. I can buy half the grocery store now. I like that.

You chose a tough way to see your dreams realised. I do not envy you. I admire you for working hard to see your vision completed. Hang in there. Do your thing. But don;t try to tell others that "their thing" is not valid or enjoyable.

You might want to take that hair shirt off from time to time. It's not becoming. And it smells bad.
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  #127  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Bostons a tough town to be broke in Bob.When were you there?.
  #128  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Brent I didn't see it that way. I saw your post as an honest description of what it takes to operate in your world. Not pretty but real. I could relate. When you said, " $40 when I launched her. " I remembered the time when I was working in Boston when I literally had to count the change in my pocket to see what I could buy for dinner. Beans? How many? Six beans? Nine beans?

I hated that. Well,,,I didn't hate it. It was just the life I had chosen. But I knew that I would never be happy in that world. I knew my work was valuable and damn it I was going to get paid a reasonable living. I am happy with the result. I can buy half the grocery store now. I like that.

You chose a tough way to see your dreams realized. I do not envy you. I admire you for working hard to see your vision completed. Hang in there. Do your thing. But don;t try to tell others that "their thing" is not valid or enjoyable.

You might want to take that hair shirt off from time to time. It's not becoming. And it smells bad.
Bob, I have long said that the way I finally came to see myself as being successful was when I realized I could go to the grocery store and buy as much as I cared to buy and not have to worry if I would have to put anything back when I got to the checkout. I know that feeling, from both sides of the situation.

A lot of people measure their success with the toys they have, me I think success is measured by being out of debt, able to live within your means and knowing what the neighbors have is just that, what they have, and you cannot compare yourself to others if you want to be happy.

Some people think that being wealthy means having stuff, I think being wealthy is not having debt on the stuff you have, no matter if it is an old pickup and a dinghy, or a G IV and a megayacht. Just my opinion, but I think it is a decent way to judge success.
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  #129  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Boston:
April first 1972 and April first 1973. My take home pay was $173.00 a week. I rode my bike 32 miles a day because I had to. I do not regret a minite of it.

Mak:
I'm with you. Buying groceries with a cavelier attitude is indeed a luxury I enjoy today. Although my neighbor Steve makes me read the sale adds. Tonight I ate prime rib eyes $22.00 a pound. They were pretty good. Not sure they were worth that much. I have to stay away from Whole Foods. I prefer a nice big hamburger patty. I buy a chuck roast and have the butcher grind it up for me. I'm a peasant at heart.
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  #130  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

April '72 I was 10.32 miles, you must have been in great shape by the end of that.Go the cheese cake factory and order there Farmhouse special burger, Chedder cheese, bacon on a 1/2 pounder with a fried egg and topped with pork bellies. Its awesome.
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