Pros and cons of steel sailboats - Page 132 - SailNet Community

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  #1311  
Old 09-30-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
Oh, should not BS like them concrete ones since they have steel mesh or some such thing int hem?
My first boat was concrete. She broke up on a Fijian coral reef in conditions which would not have damaged a steel boat in any way.
No need to work in concrete any more. You get given one ,use it until you are able to get a steel hull together, then transfer all the goodies over to the steel one.
The reason there are so few older steel boats is the builders never felt the need to paint the inside properly, resulting in them rusting out from the inside. A simple inside epoxy job wold have eliminated that problem. Another reason is the labourious, outdated building methods used, couldn't compete with fibreglass, when resin was cheap( a long, long time ago.) Newer building methods and the high cost of fibreglass materials have reversed this, for new boats. Hands on long distance cruising experience increases the demand for steel boats, in proportion to the skipper's offshore cruising experience. ( See Jimmy Cornel's book "Modern Offshore Cruising)
Mass marketing flooded the market with FG boats . So many they sometimes can't give them away.
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  #1312  
Old 09-30-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Seems like that was the major issue and the cause of many finely constructed ferrocement boats being uninsurable. From what I recall most home builders could get the proper set up of the concrete but when construction was done incorrectly the steel would degrade inside the hull. This was undetectable without major interrogation so after multiple claims insurance became basically unobtainable. Don't think it's even used for barges now. Hear it's becoming increasingly difficult to get insurance or slip dockage for old plank on frame as well. Think that just stupid as if well maintained and refastened when needed those are solid sea boats.
Any concrete boat which has lasted this long, since they were last building them, has no problem with steel corrosion inside the concrete. If they did, it would have broken up long ago.
If they are cheap enough ,they are disposable. So who needs insurance on a freebe?
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  #1313  
Old 09-30-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I still like "Anvil Of The Sea".



Is it just me or is that a pretty crappy-looking curve on that forward starboard side? That's gonna take a lot of filler.
As one famous artist said "Fools and children should never be allowed to se a work of art incomplete.
Before pulling the bow together, we carefully measure the point, equidistant from the point of the stem, on both sides, where we match the two halves when pulling them together. Some times when we tack the two halves together at that point, you would swear there is no way they will match. As they come together they end up matching up perfectly, as perfect as your measurements.
Smack has just been banned from another site, when it became obvious to the moderator that his only reason for being there was to attack every word I posted , and any suggestion of innovation , of any kind.
CBC radio , this morning , reported that Popular Science has eliminated its "comments " post. They said that it had been taken over by "mouth breathing , knuckle dragging morons, who's favorite pastime was to attack everything posted, regardless of content, undermining science, their reason for publishing in the first place.
They said the internet, once with huge potential for advancement in any field , was being wrecked , and rendered useless as a discussion of potential advancements, by a gang of trolls, who attack every thing said, regardless of content.
Sound familiar?

I once saw a steel boat called "Irony"
A client had one called " Rumplesteelskin" which he sold in Fiji to build one of mine . No rumples in the new one.
Other names I have seen, good for any kind of sailboat.
"Between The Sheets"
"Blew By You"

This could be an entertaining subject
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Last edited by Brent Swain; 09-30-2013 at 06:35 PM.
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  #1314  
Old 09-30-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Smack is no longer banned. His ban lasted 24 hours. He was banned for posting direct quotes from Brent Swain. How crazy is that?

Perhaps you need to read today's post by the moderator on that site before blaming Smack. You do not come out of looking very good Brent. But attack away. Its seems to be your only style.

As my friend said today, "What the hell is a Brent Swain?"
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  #1315  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by kimbottles View Post
The sad thing is that Brent apparently does have good valuable information to share, however his positive nuggets of information get lost when instead of simply sharing his knowledge with us in a positive way he feels the need to slam and put down everyone else and every other boat building material.

The irony is that if he would stop the attacks and simply share his knowledge in a positive way he might gain the respect he apparently craves.
I only respond to attacks on the information I give , from those who have no experience in my field. Such attacks, left unchallenged, would be accepted as fact ,were they left unchallenged.
This discussion is about pros and cons of steel boats. Compared to which alternatives? Some interpret that as "only cons allowed."
I am the only person posting responses to attacks on steel as a material, who has any long distance, long term cruising , building, maintaining and designing experience, on steel boats , on this thread. Without my postings , only cons, from people with almost zero experience in the subject at hand, would be posted here. This kind of one sided disinformation would be a disservice to anyone seeking reliable information on the subject, or a credible answer to the original question here.
There is no denying Bobs expertise in FG boats ,in which he is one of the foremost experts in the world. That doesn't automatically make him an expert in all matters nautical, including a material he has almost zero experience in building, maintaining and cruising in. You wouldn't allow someone's qualifications as a rocket scientist pass as qualifications for him to do open heart surgery on you.
Suggestions that a fibreglass boat is as strong as a steel boat, with welded down lifelines, mooring bits, hatch hinges and coamings etc etc , must be challenged, regardless of how self evident the lie is. Such disinformation costs lives .
Stainless is around 95,000 psi tensile strength. According to Kasten ,marine aluminium is 45,000 psi tensile strength. To be the same strength the cross section of stainless, aluminium must be slightly greater than twice the cross section of stainless.
Smack's claim that the cross section of the 3/16th stainless shackle on a Garhaur block is more than half the cross section of the 3/16th by 1 1/4 inch becket X2 on my blocks, or that the cross section of the thin stainless becket on a garhaur is more than half that of the 1 1/4 by 3/16th becket on my blocks , is bull, which must be challenged , lest it mislead anyone into blowing their cruising funds needlessly on over priced gear, with no functional advantage whatsoever.
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Last edited by Brent Swain; 09-30-2013 at 07:06 PM.
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  #1316  
Old 09-30-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

No Brent I AM an expert on ALL THINGS NAUTICAL. No question about that. All things.

What a foolish thing this is to say. But you can't help yourself. You have to attack. I'm sure a lot of the people here will greatly appreciating you pointing that out to them.

I just design boats and I'm happy that people keep asking me to design more. I like my job. I'm pretty darn good at it so it seems.

Let's have some fun. I'll make a list of all the famous designers who neverv went world cruising. Maybe you guys can add to the list because I think I'llm stop when my typing finger gets tired.

Designers who never went world cruising:
Olin Stephens
Bruce Farr
Laurie Davidson
K. AAge Nielsen
Bill Atkin
Bill Garden
Charles Withotz
Charley Gilmer
Bill Lapworth
Doug Peterson
Bruce King
Ron Holland
Mark Mills
Gary Mull
Carl Schumacher
Bill Tripp
Skip Calkins
Carl Alberg
Bill Shaw
Chuck Paine
Ted Brewer
Dick Carter
Jim Taylor
German Frers
Ted Hood
L. Francis Herreshoff
Dieter Empacher
Uffa Fox

I'll add my own name to the list because its a list I am very proud to be on. Although I suppose Brent has no respect for any of those named. If you like go ahead and add to the list.

Lets see:
Bob Perry
Ben Seaborn.
Ed Monk
George Cuthbertson
George Cassian
Bill Dixon
Britt Chance
Dave Pedrick
Alan Payne
Ed Dubois
Charley Morgan
Yves-Marie Tanton
Peter Norlin
Knud Riemers
Phil Rhodes
John Reichel
Jim Puigh
Tony Castro
Rob Humphrteys
Bruce Nelson
Bruce Marek
George Stadel III
Winthrop Warner
Ralph E, Winslow
John Alden,
Howard Chappelle
Albert Strange
Aurthur Robb


etc.
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Last edited by bobperry; 10-01-2013 at 09:07 AM.
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  #1317  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Bob
Did you have anything to do with the design of the CT41?
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  #1318  
Old 09-30-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Brent:
No. Sorry. That project in all it's iterations was begun well before I first went to Taiwan. It's common knowledge.
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  #1319  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

The only one on that list with hands on experience in building in steel was Withotz. The result ? He designed some very good, good looking hard chine, and practical steel boats.
I asked you what your long term cruising in a steel boat was , and your experience in building and maintaining a steel boat over the long term were, and you had no answer.
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  #1320  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Brent I have never claimed to be an expert in steel boat building. Ever. In have never built a steel boat. I have never wanted to build a steel boat. I never wanted to own a steel boat. I don;t like steel boats.You just go right along and make up your facts while I wait patiently for the quote where I say I am an "expert in steel boat building" or "I have built many (or one) steel boats." You claim I said it. You must be able to provide truth to back up your claim.

I've seen some beautifully built European built steel boats. Yours? They don't work for my eye. But they work for some people so you should be happy.

The true fact is that all those guys on my list are famous yacht designers. They all arrived at their fame in their own way. Some through college. Some finished. Many did not finish college. Oloin didn't. Some came through apprenticeship programs, some pretty much were self taught.

It just doesn't matter how they arrived at their success. They arrived. They are all successful and well known in the world of yachting. I sure as hell am not going to call up Chuck Paine and endeavor to tell him he did it "wrong". That's just silly. He's Chuck Paine. He did it.

" Hey, L. Francis."
"Can I call you "L."?
" Uh,, L,,,,,you did it wrong working away in this silly wooden tower in Marblehead."

As my buddy said, "What the hell is a Brent Swain?"
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Last edited by bobperry; 09-30-2013 at 08:18 PM.
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