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  #131  
Old 07-14-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Boston:
April first 1972 and April first 1973. My take home pay was $173.00 a week. I rode my bike 32 miles a day because I had to. I do not regret a minite of it.

Mak:
I'm with you. Buying groceries with a cavelier attitude is indeed a luxury I enjoy today. Although my neighbor Steve makes me read the sale adds. Tonight I ate prime rib eyes $22.00 a pound. They were pretty good. Not sure they were worth that much. I have to stay away from Whole Foods. I prefer a nice big hamburger patty. I buy a chuck roast and have the butcher grind it up for me. I'm a peasant at heart.
You were taking home almost 9 grand a year in '72? You were wealthy! That would be like taking home 90 grand now.
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  #132  
Old 07-14-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I lived in North Beverly. The office was on the tip of Nahant. I did the 16 miles in an average of 55 minutes depending on the weather. I could not afford the food you talk about. My big splurge was two chocolate donuts from Dunkin Donuts with a coffee.
But I was happy. Sometimes I would stop to watch a little league game.
Don't recall ever thinking I was in "good shape", I was a kid. My body did what I asked.

Jon:
I was far from wealthy. That is a bit silly.
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  #133  
Old 07-14-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Bob, in 1982 when I was still in my last year of high school I got a job for minimum wage, I think it was $1.75 an hour or something close enough that it did not matter, and the pay was retarded low. I still had money to buy gas for the car and a pack of smokes every now and then, and peanut butter and jelly and bread for my lunches. That crappy job, which I worked for three months, broke me of ever wanting to be anyone's employee, so I guess it was a good thing overall, but man you got to know working in a plastic factory, dirty, dangerous, and hot was the worst job I ever worked until I became a business owner and had to work day and night for probably less money a few times. The whole point of it is we all should have some point in our lives where we sat down and had that moment when we realized that it is not how much money you have, but the freedom you have in spending it that counts. If you earn a million dollars an hour but your overhead takes up all but two bucks of that, then you are working for two bucks and hour, and you are probably a millimeter away from a heart attack all the time too.

If you are down in South America and you earn $1200.00 a month, live on a paid for boat, and only work when you really want to or have to in order to scrounge up the money for the slip fees and spend the rest of your time fishing, taking photos in the mountains and enjoying time with your friends and family you would be considered rich in my book. I plan to be rich some day here soon.
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  #134  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

My Father lived in Beverly for about 10 years.I was a bike messenger when I first moved here to San Francisco in 1986. I lived on camels, coffee,top ramon and day old donuts, Sometimes Id get a boiled egg to go with the noodles that was living then:-).
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  #135  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
I lived in North Beverly. The office was on the tip of Nahant. I did the 16 miles in an average of 55 minutes depending on the weather. I could not afford the food you talk about. My big splurge was two chocolate donuts from Dunkin Donuts with a coffee.
But I was happy. Sometimes I would stop to watch a little league game.
Don't recall ever thinking I was in "good shape", I was a kid. My body did what I asked.

Jon:
I was far from wealthy. That is a bit silly.
Boston must have been a very expensive place to live then - in '72 I paid $50/month for a suite in a good neighbourhood here. A new Corvette cost about $7K, I bought a near new Yamaha 360 dirt bike for $800. Condo's started at $11K and tract houses were in the $20's.

I would have killed to be taking home $9K then - I was grossing about $4k working at IBM in '72. A $9K income was enough to buy a house and support a family back then - here at least.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Boston has always been expensive.Its 250,000+ college students every year.Also it was the high-tech captital back in the day,Raytheon, Digital, etc.
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  #137  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I worked in steel shops til my mid 20s, when I became self employed. After that I was able to live comfortably on a months work a year. I let people who want to build a steel boat, find a site buy the materials acquoire the tools then hire me for an hourly wage plus expenses, and I help them get the basic shell to apoint where they can handle the rest. I dont accept any pay intil I have done something, and dont start the next week's work til I have ben paid for the last one. This minimizes the potential for misunderstanding. Working alongside the owner also minimizes such potential for misunderstanding. The owners also come away with some welding and fabricating skills, which have, in some cases lead to well paying careers, giving me an even greater sense of accomplishment, especially when dealing with youth..Some times I drop in for a few days to help jump start the detailing. Making peoples lifetime dreams come true is a lot more satifying than building money making devices for the corporate world, especially when your efforts and inovations are the only things which makes the dream possible.
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Last edited by Brent Swain; 07-14-2013 at 06:48 PM.
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  #138  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Brent I didn't see it that way. I saw your post as an honest description of what it takes to operate in your world. Not pretty but real. I could relate. When you said, " $40 when I launched her. " I remembered the time when I was working in Boston when I literally had to count the change in my pocket to see what I could buy for dinner. Beans? How many? Six beans? Nine beans?

I hated that. Well,,,I didn't hate it. It was just the life I had chosen. But I knew that I would never be happy in that world. I knew my work was valuable and damn it I was going to get paid a reasonable living. I am happy with the result. I can buy half the grocery store now. I like that.

You chose a tough way to see your dreams realised. I do not envy you. I admire you for working hard to see your vision completed. Hang in there. Do your thing. But don;t try to tell others that "their thing" is not valid or enjoyable.

You might want to take that hair shirt off from time to time. It's not becoming. And it smells bad.
In my early 20's I caried only bus tokens so I couldt waste any money. Froiends who partied their youth away said You are going to have a horrible sumer. I said
Yes but I will be cruising the south pacific while you guys are still working the rest of your lives." That prediction came true whgen I headed for New zealand, single handed, at the ripe old age of 23 in my own boat, while they kept working to retirement age, those who mad eit that far. No regrets. Resourceful living has been a blast. I wouldn't trade places with anyone. Getting bouncy in this anchorage . Time to go for ice cream and a swim.
Wonder what those rich workaholics are doing at this moment.
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  #139  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Sucker! Heh-heh.

Look, I'm not just winding things up here. Brent has made a hell of a lot of claims and taken a hell of a lot of shots at people across many forums. Most of these claims have been about his boats - many of them have been about stuff people have supposedly said. And the majority of them just don't add up.

So, according to your own signature line from that fine philosopher, I'm checking sources, doing some research on Brent's claims. If they stand up to scrutiny, I am indeed just winding things up. If not, I'm learning something for myself just like any Cruiser Wannabe should do. Thus far, those claims are not doing so well.

For example, with Brent's quotes above (and elsewhere) - would a typical Cruiser Wannabe surmise that it's pretty cheap to buy the plans/DVD for a BS Boat, pretty quick and easy to get the boat put together, and pretty cheap to complete her and sail her for the rest of your life with extremely low maintenance time and costs if you're just resourceful?

I think yes.

But then you start looking through what's actually out there (my examples above), and what it takes to get it done - and the reality is very different from this picture.

For example, take the vaunted Silas Crosby: the boat | s/v silas crosby

Brent's quote above talks about pulling the exterior of a boat together in 6 days. But what comes after that 6 days of roughing things out? Well, according to the Silas Crosby guy, this:



And this isn't even a cost breakdown.

Does that Cruiser Wannabe lining up for plans know what he's really getting into? The tools. The multi-discipline know-how. The multi-year time commitment. The substantial financial investment. ALL before ever getting to sail a single mile?

So, no. I'm not just winding things up here. I'm trying to figure out what Brent is talking about. Because it's not these boats.
A freind has hauled out his colvin gazzelle anualy . Designed displacement 22,000 lbs actual displacement 33,000. He owns a farm, to put all his unused stuff on, so, unlike many cruisers, he doesnt have everything he owns aboard. It woulkd be extrtemely naive to suggest that all cruising boats are the same weight after many years of cruising as the designer specified empty.
When you use such distortions to make your arguement, your arguement loses all credibility.
At ten pounds a square foot for 1/4 inch plate, what is your estimate of the steel I specified for the keels? How good is your math?
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  #140  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I can give some proices for the last 36 I built.
Mast and all standing rigging- zero
Sails - zero.
Sheet and halyard winches - zero
Running rigging and blocks- zero
Two anchors with plenty of almost new rode- zero
He was given an old boat with all the gear listed above, in good shape, for free.
With so many cheap or freebe boats out there, it shows how useless, and needlessly discouraging cost estimates can be.
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Last edited by Brent Swain; 07-15-2013 at 06:32 PM.
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