Pros and cons of steel sailboats - Page 142 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree1623Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1411  
Old 10-02-2013
smackdaddy's Avatar
Last Man Standing
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 12,950
Thanks: 80
Thanked 72 Times in 66 Posts
Rep Power: 8
smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Man I wish I had your typing skills and patience Jeff.

Should we start a new thread for the alu skiff?
The "Fukushima Skiff"?
The "Ballpeen Dinghy"?
The "Origami Punt"?
The "Cut and Paste Tjotter"?
The "Swaintology Shallop"?
The "PerrySwain Shikara"?

The marketing department is on it.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1412  
Old 10-02-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 2,309
Thanks: 19
Thanked 31 Times in 30 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Brent Swain is on a distinguished road
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by chall03 View Post
Sigh.

Brent, if you genuinely believe that Sully runs a great site and that he is a great moderator then that explains to me alot about your perspective.

I assume in you saying he is a great moderator you are aware of past allegations of him threatening physical violence on SN members, as well as his mud slinging campaign where at one time he accused a SN member of child porn.

If you do believe him to be a beacon of balanced opinion and free speech I would again encourage you to go frequent his playbox.

Smack my hero??? Nah.

If I cared what you thought that much I would post links to several different threads where I have actively disagreed with him. He is a good guy though, and funny. You are neither.

I'm not going to debate you on boat design anymore. There are those here far more qualified than I to so, and from where I sit they sir have wiped the floor with you.

Brent, you have done more to harm your name and your business in this thread than the 'plastic salesman' could of in a lifetime.
I haven't seen any of the posts by Sully which you claim. Given the irrational, childishness of those who dedicate themselves to obsessive attacks, which he must have to deal with, all for providing an exchange of information to help cruisers, I can understand him losing his cool.

Sporadic and limited internet access here has limited my ability to respond to all the negative disinformation others have given , putting me at a disadvantage in these debates, but while my critics have been siting at their computers for hours on end , which I don't have the option nor the inclination to do, saying I'm doing it all wrong, I have been cruising for months on end , in one if the best cruising grounds in the world ( which I thought was the whole point) while the guys who do it the other way, spend a year working ,in order to spend three weeks here.
So who is wiping the floor with who?
Almost all of those you say are wiping the floor with me, have almost zero experience in the subject at hand , long term cruising in, maintaining and and building, steel sailboats . Its easy to be considered "Right ", by someone with no experience in the subject at hand . Is your interpretation based on the same lack of experience in the subject at hand? If so, then your conclusions are meaningless.
My comments are not necessarily aimed at my relatively tiny percentage of critics on this site, but those many other silent readers on this site who get it. Those who don't, I don't give a rats ass about, and am happy to drive them away, and not have to deal with their consumer gullibility.
__________________
Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"

Last edited by Brent Swain; 10-02-2013 at 05:25 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1413  
Old 10-02-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: new england
Posts: 1,614
Thanks: 31
Thanked 24 Times in 21 Posts
Rep Power: 2
outbound is on a distinguished road
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Great job Jeff- Thank you.
Like you I seriously contemplated doing a steel boat but for me cons outweighed the pros. Your points about cold molded wood epoxy with appropriate skins or strip plank are well taken but again in the U.S. at least you are faced with resale issues. From a purely economic perspective I think for cruisers and the lofty few who get to be voyagers some form of grp will continue to lead the pack in numbers of new hulls and of course in refits. The issue of being able to leave the boat to deal with "home" issues or defer maintenance to continue cruising without putting the basic structure at risk ( as long as zincs are changed) was a huge consideration for me.
__________________
s/v Hippocampus
Outbound 46
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1414  
Old 10-02-2013
grumpy old man
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,545
Thanks: 1
Thanked 72 Times in 68 Posts
Rep Power: 4
bobperry will become famous soon enough
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Brent:
I want a durable skiff I can drag up on my rocky beach.
I was thinking 1/8" pl skins.
With bow and stern seat and rowing thwart I can conveniently put in frames so my biggest unsupported panel is 36". I was thinking .25" frames to support the seats and the shell.

I like the idea of a backbone that I can sculpt at stem and "sternpost" and get some skeg below the shell for tracking. I was thinking .375" pl for the backbone.

Do you think these thicknesses are overkill? I was hoping a nice thick skin would stay fair.
I need to do a weight study. I'd love to keep it around 100 lbs.

What do you think? Am I in the ballpark?
__________________
Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Bob's Blog ....


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1415  
Old 10-02-2013
grumpy old man
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,545
Thanks: 1
Thanked 72 Times in 68 Posts
Rep Power: 4
bobperry will become famous soon enough
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I like the Ballpeen Fifteen.

That's exactly what I am going to call it.
T34C and smackdaddy like this.
__________________
Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Bob's Blog ....


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1416  
Old 10-02-2013
smackdaddy's Avatar
Last Man Standing
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 12,950
Thanks: 80
Thanked 72 Times in 66 Posts
Rep Power: 8
smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
I like the Ballpeen Fifteen.

That's exactly what I am going to call it.
Row the hammer beeches!
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1417  
Old 10-02-2013
grumpy old man
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,545
Thanks: 1
Thanked 72 Times in 68 Posts
Rep Power: 4
bobperry will become famous soon enough
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

When I look around at the people around me I do not make the assumption that everyone desires to live the way I do. We all have our own personal lifestyles. That doesn't bother me at all. My preferred lifestyle is mine. I don't want to cruise all the time. I have my shack on the beach. Well, it's not exactly a "shack" but I like to call it a shack. I did a custom 70'er for a client who always referred to the boat as his "tub". I have a big, spacious office where I can display my guitar collection and indulge myself in my hobby of hi end hi-fi gear surounded by all the tools I need to comfortably do my designing. I pretty much live in my office. The rest of the shack is comfy and cabin like except for my 62' long indoor swimming pool. It's certainly modest by many standards but it is the house I always dreamed of and I had a large hand in its design. So, no. I don't want to cruise in a small boat all the time. I really don't want to go anywhere at all. I like it right here. If I could choose to spend three weeks somewhere. I think I'd choose to spend it here with my wife, my dogs and my cat. Some of you probably think I'm nuts. Well, maybe I am. I have some Ravel on now. He was a bit nuts too.

What I think I just might want, maybe, right now is an alu skiff.
T37Chef and AlaskaMC like this.
__________________
Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Bob's Blog ....


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1418  
Old 10-02-2013
Jeff_H's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
Posts: 6,530
Thanks: 5
Thanked 85 Times in 65 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Man I wish I had your typing skills and patience Jeff.

Should we start a new thread for the alu skiff?
Starting a new thread for the aluminum skiff might actually make sense. I had wanted to comment that I thought that it was very cool that your '3D' software guy was able to generate 'developable' curve designs. I have always had concerns about being able to accurately predict (without computer modeling) the shape of a panel that is formed into a developable curve.

Back in the late 1970's, I designed a little 11'-0" one-design young person training boat that looked like a minature hard-chine Laser or a Force 5. The idea behind this boat was that it could be a parent and child project that could be built pretty easily over a couple weekends with a couple sheets of plywood, some pine shelving, some 1x2's and some ring nails.

I was concerned about how much I could twist the bow panels and about the their precise final shape once twisted into place. I ended up buying some door skins and building a reasonably precise jig that allowed me to clamp the door skin in place at the precise shape and angle of the bottom, and then bend it 90 degrees to form the stem angle. The jig was set up with ledgers that let me precisely measure offsets and diagonals to the inside of the skin and I used those offsets to create my bow drawings and precisely shape the forward bulkhead and produce bevels for the edges.

I always worried about that one aspect of the design. As it turned out, the club decided to buy the same (more expensive) one-design class that was in use at other local clubs, which was probably the right move even though it meant fewer boats. I was very disappointed those boats were never built but on the other hand, it did reduce my stress over wondering whether I had the bow right. I had planned to loft and help build the first boat, and had planned to carefully measure the bevels and the shape of that bulkhead once it was faired and the bottom planking trial fit.

Anyway, I must say that it's much easier to have software do that kind of thing.

Jeff
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Curmudgeon at Large- and rhinestone in the rough, sailing my Farr 11.6 on the Chesapeake Bay and part-time purveyor of marine supplies

Last edited by Jeff_H; 10-02-2013 at 06:24 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1419  
Old 10-02-2013
AlaskaMC's Avatar
Frozen Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 469
Thanks: 21
Thanked 14 Times in 13 Posts
Rep Power: 4
AlaskaMC is on a distinguished road
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
If I could choose to spend three weeks somewhere. I think I'd choose to spend it here with my wife, my dogs and my cat.
You don't hear this enough in the world. I hear too many men (and the ladies too) talk about getting time away from each other. Good on ya.

Not to mention your a music appreciator too. Used to be an opera major way back when I was young. Good to hear that some folks still listen to the masters and yet like other music as well.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1420  
Old 10-02-2013
chall03's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,510
Thanks: 14
Thanked 20 Times in 17 Posts
Rep Power: 12
chall03 will become famous soon enough
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
I haven't seen any of the posts by Sully which you claim. Given the irrational, childishness of those who dedicate themselves to obsessive attacks, which he must have to deal with, all for providing an exchange of information to help cruisers, I can understand him losing his cool.

Sporadic and limited internet access here has limited my ability to respond to all the negative disinformation others have given , putting me at a disadvantage in these debates, but while my critics have been siting at their computers for hours on end , which I don't have the option nor the inclination to do, saying I'm doing it all wrong, I have been cruising for months on end , in one if the best cruising grounds in the world ( which I thought was the whole point) while the guys who do it the other way, spend a year working ,in order to spend three weeks here.
So who is wiping the floor with who?
Almost all of those you say are wiping the floor with me, have almost zero experience in the subject at hand , long term cruising in, maintaining and and building, steel sailboats . Its easy to be considered "Right ", by someone with no experience in the subject at hand . Is your interpretation based on the same lack of experience in the subject at hand? If so, then your conclusions are meaningless.
My comments are not necessarily aimed at my relatively tiny percentage of critics on this site, but those many other silent readers on this site who get it. Those who don't, I don't give a rats ass about, and am happy to drive them away, and not have to deal with their consumer gullibility.
I am looking forward to you helping Bob design the Ballpeen Fifteen.
__________________
'Life is either a daring adventure or nothing' - Helen Keller



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 3 (0 members and 3 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hunter 36 Pros and Cons? turfguy Hunter 13 03-24-2014 09:34 AM
C & C 24 pros and cons chuckg Boat Review and Purchase Forum 11 04-06-2012 12:45 AM
Pros and Cons of Catalina 350?? turfguy C350 6 10-16-2009 05:17 PM
Watermakers—Pros and Cons Tom Wood Cruising Articles 0 06-11-2002 08:00 PM
Steel Hulls—Pros and Cons Sue & Larry Buying a Boat Articles 0 09-12-2001 08:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:28 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.