Pros and cons of steel sailboats - Page 15 - SailNet Community
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post #141 of 5317 Old 07-14-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
A freind has hauled out his colvin gazzelle anualy . Designed displacement 22,000 lbs actual displacement 33,000. He owns a farm, to put all his unused stuff on, so, unlike many cruisers, he doesnt have everything he owns aboard. It woulkd be extrtemely naive to suggest that all cruising boats are the same weight after many years of cruising as the designer specified empty.
When you use such distortions to make your arguement, your arguement loses all credibility.
At ten pounds a square foot for 1/4 inch plate, what is your estimate of the steel I specified for the keels? How good is your math?
Brent, I know you're in a hurry to eat your ice cream and swim, but you keep missing the point, over, and over, and over.

Read carefully....

The keel weight was neither my calculation nor my argument, it came from the owner of the Silas Crosby...your customer. (Follow that link above.) HE'S the one you're calling out here...not me. He's one of the friends you like to quote that is supposed to prove your points - not sink them with actual facts (of course I never expected anything else).

Good lord man. You can't keep ANY of these facts straight. My credibility is just fine. It's yours that needs some serious work - especially when it comes to being a credible voice in the steel boat industry.


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post #142 of 5317 Old 07-14-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I started reading this post when it was new and used the discussion, in part, to validate my desire to have a steel yacht for unlimited voyaging. I just bought maybe the best Colvin Gazelle ever put together - probably one of the most expensive - definitely the best equipped and most beautiful - and couldn't be more excited. A nod to you, Brent, for your 'steeled' passion. I hope that the fact that a 'friend' has one is endorsement from you that I've made a good decision. Thanks, always, Smack for your informed commentary. You never disappoint!
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post #143 of 5317 Old 07-14-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by AKA44 View Post
I started reading this post when it was new and used the discussion, in part, to validate my desire to have a steel yacht for unlimited voyaging. I just bought maybe the best Colvin Gazelle ever put together - probably one of the most expensive - definitely the best equipped and most beautiful - and couldn't be more excited. A nod to you, Brent, for your 'steeled' passion. I hope that the fact that a 'friend' has one is endorsement from you that I've made a good decision. Thanks, always, Smack for your informed commentary. You never disappoint!
Heh-heh. No worries AKA. My aim is always to get at what's true. That's all. As I have said many times, I have nothing against Brent (or steel yachts for that matter) - just his claims that don't jive with the truth as seen in the many examples posted above. Personally, I'll be eager to hear your stories regarding maintenance and equipment and how they jive with Brent's. I'm always open to learn!


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post #144 of 5317 Old 07-15-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by AKA44 View Post
I started reading this post when it was new and used the discussion, in part, to validate my desire to have a steel yacht for unlimited voyaging. I just bought maybe the best Colvin Gazelle ever put together - probably one of the most expensive - definitely the best equipped and most beautiful - and couldn't be more excited. A nod to you, Brent, for your 'steeled' passion. I hope that the fact that a 'friend' has one is endorsement from you that I've made a good decision. Thanks, always, Smack for your informed commentary. You never disappoint!
I just helperd a friend installl a wheelhouse on his Gazzelle, between the aft cabin and the main cabin, turning the area from a crawl space into a huge living space. Another gazzelle I did this on years ago is cruising Mexico, and is hauled out every spring. He said there are three more Gazzeles in the yard, none of which have a wheelhouse, but all of whom wish they had one. Give it some thought.
Smacks comments, based on zero experience in cruising in steel boats, or any long term cruising or boatbuilding experience of any kind, are anything but informed. Best check the experience of anyone, before giving much weight to their coments.

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"
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post #145 of 5317 Old 07-15-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Jeezuz Brent: Why so angry if you are having such a great time?

There you go again trying to shove your own judgmental approach down everybody else's thoat.

Relax.
Chill.
Have a drink, a smoke whatever it takes.
Chew your nails.
Enjoy your own ride and know that some of us do not want to be on it. I most certainly do not. But we accept that it is good for you.

Some of us have other ideas.

I am doing exactly what I want to do. I do not want to retire. I just work now at my own pace on my own conditions and I insist on getting well paid for it. My work has value. I produce some beautiful yachts.

You do protest too much me thinks. You do not sound like a happy guy.

Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


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Last edited by bobperry; 07-15-2013 at 08:17 AM.
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post #146 of 5317 Old 07-15-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Best check the experience of anyone, before giving much weight to their coments.
I'm just quoting your clients...after I've checked their experience. They definitely carry weight.


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post #147 of 5317 Old 07-15-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

AKA: I am a fan of Colvin's work. They are not my kind of boat but I sure think he did a great job with the designs. I don't have to want one to admire them. Colvin had
"the eye".

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post #148 of 5317 Old 07-15-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Brent, I know you're in a hurry to eat your ice cream and swim, but you keep missing the point, over, and over, and over.

Read carefully....

The keel weight was neither my calculation nor my argument, it came from the owner of the Silas Crosby...your customer. (Follow that link above.) HE'S the one you're calling out here...not me. He's one of the friends you like to quote that is supposed to prove your points - not sink them with actual facts (of course I never expected anything else).

Good lord man. You can't keep ANY of these facts straight. My credibility is just fine. It's yours that needs some serious work - especially when it comes to being a credible voice in the steel boat industry.
So here are some facts
1-8ft by 12 ft sheet of 1/4 inch plate at 10 lbs per sq ft 960 lbs
Average 4 inch wide by 6 ft long by half inch plate keel bottoms, 80 lbs
total 1040 lbs. Yes Steve did get that wrong. You would love to con me into agreeing with a miscalculation so you could attack me for it.
A lot closer to 1,000 lbs than 2,000 lbs .
Another fact . Steve did not say his boat weighed closer to 20,000 pounds empty. In fact, he said nothing about the boat, while equiped and loaded for cruising deep sea, being completely empty.
Here are some more cost numbers for you. Two anchors with long rodes, in good condition, almost unused - free. They came with the freebe boat.
Stainless galley sink- free from the dumpster. Force ten three burner propane galley stove with oven - free, donated by a guy who came into an inheritance, who bought himself a new one.
That boat, started last mid october, and worked on two or three days a week most of the winter, will be launching this coming wedneday.
Here are some costs for my boat.
Stainless woodstove - $25 worth of scrap stainless and ten dollars worth of welding rod. Gally cook stove -$50 from harbor freight.
Interior - 50 dollars , plywood either given to me or scrounged off the beaches, and tropical hardwood from motorcycle crates, mostly gumwood.
Stainles galley sink - free from a dumpster. Bilge pumps- $10 worth of scrap stainless and $5 worth of welding rods. 2 diaphragms for $5 each.
Composting head - $25 worth of materials. Roller furler- $80 worth of materials. Anchors - free materials from scrap piles and $3 worth of welding rod. Anchor winch - $35 worth of scrap stainless and $10 worth of welding rod. Mast - free, a gift of spruce. Turnbuckles $22 each, new, galvanized 5/8th inch. 5/16th galv rigging wire , $24 from a scrapyard. Blocks- $2 each made from scrap aluminium and poly sheet.
A kid, whom I'm training to do my job , found enough plywood in a dump, to build his interior several times over, in a single trip.

Most of smackdaddy's attacks on me have an underlying theme of extreme envy. Better to get your directions from the envied, than from the envious. Envy is a very sincere form of flattery.
Thanks for all the compliments , Smack.

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"

Last edited by Brent Swain; 07-15-2013 at 12:42 AM.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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AKA: I am a fan of Colvin's work. They are not my kind of boat but I sure think he did a great job with the designs. I don't have to want one to admire them. Colvin had
"the eye".
Colvin did a great job of providing plans for home steel boat builders when no one else would. He was ahead of his time, when it came to cruising boat building materials . He is well behind the times in his methods and technology, when it comes to modern steel boat building methods.

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post #150 of 5317 Old 07-15-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Most of smackdaddy's attacks on me have an underlying theme of extreme envy. Better to get your directions from the envied, than from the envious. Envy is a very sincere form of flattery.
Thanks for all the compliments , Smack.
Extreme envy. Yep, you got me.

Anyway, I'm not "attacking" you, Brent. I'm vigorously questioning your sales pitch regarding your products. That's all.

Many of the things you've been saying don't match what your customers are saying. In my opinion, your claims typically sound too good to be true - and that appears to be proven in these many examples from your clients/friends (though now you're even arguing with them).

As a consumer myself, I tend to put more weight on the facts from the customers involved with a product, than the claims from the guy trying to sell the product...especially if his position is "believe me over anything or anyone else - even my own customers".

Maybe that's just me.

PS - And what do you mean by this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Another fact . Steve did not say his boat weighed closer to 20,000 pounds empty. In fact, he said nothing about the boat, while equiped and loaded for cruising deep sea, being completely empty.
All the weight claims are directly from his website. His words: the boat | s/v silas crosby

Who exactly are you trying to discredit here?
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