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  #1521  
Old 10-06-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
I think that Brent is raising a very valid point in his comments about distortion of the plates. From my own experiences with welding I am very aware that distortion can be a serious problem especially for the inexperienced welder. From my limited experience I found steel reasonably forgiving. Other metals not so much....In my case about the time that I thought I was a pretty good welder I decided to weld a small SS fitting. A friend let me use his shop during lunch. After carefully shaping the parts, I spent an hour welding them together ending up with a useless pretzel. I made the parts again and went back to my friend who 10-15 min later had made a flawless weldment that just needed to be polished out.

In this case, the good news is that Bob is using a welder who understands aluminum. But it highlights the issue of amateur construction. An amateur with an aptitude for welding might be able to weld up a steel boat with reasonably thick plating, but I seriously think it is far less likely that an amateur can weld up an aluminum boat without a lot more practice and experience than would be easy to acquire as a dilettante.

Jeff
All true, Jeff. But Bob may have pictures somewhere of an aluminum version of the Norseman 447 that was impeccably homebuilt by someone that, AFAIK did not start out as a professional. At a distance one could not tell it wasn't a standard Norseman.. even down to the recessed ports (think how much extra work that must have been...)

Granted on that project you'd be working with heavier material than this beach boat...

Bob, this is a fun project.. and it sounds like you may already have a mini production run!
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  #1522  
Old 10-06-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Exactly Jeff.
I have no concerns about the build Betts has built a lot of alu boats. He voiced his concerns so I know he is aware of the difficulties involved and I think he will devise a way to deal with them. I can't see me standing there asking him to "Let me try". I have never welded anything and I choose not to start now. Maybe I'll take my guitar and sit and playt while Jim welds. I can sing wqelding songs. That's it.

"I've been working on the railroad,,,,,,,,,,,,,"
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  #1523  
Old 10-06-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Faster:
That was an unsual case. The builder of the alu N447 first built a small boat. I think it was 25' LOA. He did this to try his hand. But he was a farmer and very experienced wih welding. He was a very successful farmer and he once told me that the only way you could make money as a farnmer was to do everything yourself. He was very skilled in a wide range of disciplines.
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  #1524  
Old 10-06-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
I think that Brent is raising a very valid point in his comments about distortion of the plates. From my own experiences with welding I am very aware that distortion can be a serious problem especially for the inexperienced welder. From my limited experience I found steel reasonably forgiving. Other metals not so much....In my case about the time that I thought I was a pretty good welder I decided to weld a small SS fitting. A friend let me use his shop during lunch. After carefully shaping the parts, I spent an hour welding them together ending up with a useless pretzel. I made the parts again and went back to my friend who 10-15 min later had made a flawless weldment that just needed to be polished out.

In this case, the good news is that Bob is using a welder who understands aluminum. But it highlights the issue of amateur construction. An amateur with an aptitude for welding might be able to weld up a steel boat with reasonably thick plating, but I seriously think it is far less likely that an amateur can weld up an aluminum boat without a lot more practice and experience than would be easy to acquire as a dilettante.

Jeff
The engineers who detailed the steel fin for my Perry designed keel were very worried about welding distortion. Fortunately we had the fin fabricated at Pacific Fishermen and Dave the welder who did the work was a master craftsman with 46 years experience.

It came out PERFECT.

If you want it done with no worry go straight to the pros. Jim Betts is a pro.

Last edited by kimbottles; 10-06-2013 at 12:07 PM.
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  #1525  
Old 10-06-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I must say that I have been quite obsessed with this project since the Rat suggested an alu whaleboat. I now have five interested buyers. Just have to have one for myself first that I can show and prove how good it is.

Looking at just under 120 lbs. since we added the alu trim pieces. That could change as the scantlings may change after I talk with the builder.

Jody Culbertson is the man doing the hard work here. He does all my 3D work and he's as good as it gets. He knows geometry. He knows computers. He is a sailor. He did all the 3-D modelling and pattern program work for the 62'er at PSC.

Not sure how we will hadle the rowlocks yet (thats what I call them). Jody found some really Gucci oarlocks at a really Gucci price. I was hoping for more of a Popeye look. But Jody may be right. We may end up with the Gucci ones.

But these images show my rowlock brackets designed to gtake a variety of tholepin locations for the simple reason that I was not sure where they would be placed. Jody, smart ass, came up with this classic 7-11 rule for placing them relative to the seat. It sounds good to me. For now that detail is floating.

There is no other boat like this one. It's a work boat designed to satisfy the discerning rower who wants a sea worthy pulling boat.

I think I'll name mine POPEYE.
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  #1526  
Old 10-06-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Oh,,,good,,,I know the fires of hell.
your married then
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  #1527  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Floyd.
Yes, how did you know?
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  #1528  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Floyd.
Yes, how did you know?
fires of hell dead giveaway.
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  #1529  
Old 10-07-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Floyd:
My fires of hell have nothing to do with my wonderful wife. She is a saint.
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  #1530  
Old 10-07-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I see you posted this at SA! LOL

Any way, some little 24' white boat with a wood transom walked away from me in light winds yesterday. When they picked up, I dang near caught her, then hit a hole and light winds. dang currents......an hour later I finished after being with in 1-200 yds of finish line.........how does that song go B-I-N-G-O.............cute little small azzed boat, great in light winds...........

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