Pros and cons of steel sailboats - Page 155 - SailNet Community
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post #1541 of 5317 Old 10-07-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by Bob142 View Post
Jeff did an amazing job of sorting out the pros and cons of this thread…I’d like to make an attempt to sort out the thread drift part…Sort the philosophy from the school yard stuff…I see this forum composed of three groups… the 7 figure people don’t seem to be present so that leaves the 6 figure people, the 4 and 5 figure people and probably the largest group would be the dreamers who are silently lurking and trying to learn what they can before jumping in to sailing and owning…
There is a lot of comment and advice given about the high cost of sailing and a lot of fear spreading about the dangers…there are a few voices with practical help…
I don’t see Brent as a ( Eco-warrior ) save the planet type…He is well aware that the planet looks after itself …it covered the Egyptians with sand and the Mayans and Incas with jungle…What he is doing is telling the dreamers that it is possible to enjoy the world while they can and to cause the least possible damage …
He says and has proven it by living it that a lot of money isn’t needed to become a sailor but that you have to strike a balance between Form and Function with most of the weight on the Function … If your priority is Form you become a ( Marina Queen) (his term ) and yes it is expensive…His main objective seems to be to offer a practical alternative to the dreamers and not to convince the established sailors that his is the right way or the only way…From his experience he advises that there are dangers and that some of them can be minimized …one way is a steel boat… that if you go up on a reef or lee shore, and none of us are immune to this, a wood boat or a Tupperware one will last less then an hour…He doesn’t say that his boats are better but that the frameless method gives advantages…similar to the strength that an eggshell has…He sells his plans cheap and lives simply…
I have a lot of respect for Bob… He fills a need … there are a lot of people that wouldn’t be sailing if he didn’t make pretty boats…and I personally enjoy looking at any form of art work…I like that he isn’t stuck in the Form mode… he changes and adapts…this latest project the emphasis is on Function, the ability to be drug over the rocks and the weight factor…He is balancing this with the Form it is better if it looks good and he is using the origami method…

That’s the best that I got…
Bob - if he said it the way you said it above, there would be absolutely no problem at all.

The problem is - what you say he says, and what he actually types are two completely different things.

That said, if you want to interpret what he types the way you have - that's fine. It's just that most people don't see it the way you do - regardless of the number of figures in their bank account.

I see he liked your clarification, so maybe everything you said is what he means to say, but just doesn't have the communication skills to do so. That would explain a lot of things.


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Last edited by smackdaddy; 10-07-2013 at 06:50 PM.
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post #1542 of 5317 Old 10-07-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Oh,,,,that Bob.
Nevermind.

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post #1543 of 5317 Old 10-07-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

As long as there is new information avaliable I am entranced. My father worked
for Sandia labs for 37 years. One afternoon in about an hour our neighbor explained to me the entire process of epitaxial deposition used in the manufacture of semiconductors I still remember. That little whaleboat has touched a joy that I have not felt in years. For that I can never thank you enough. I should have gone down to the ocean when I was 18. I might have drowned (adrenalin junkie) , but to have that feeling it would be a small price. I have been looking at Valiant, Tyana, Baba, even some steel double enders. I am hooked.

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post #1544 of 5317 Old 10-07-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Well Desert, it was your idea. You should like it.

Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


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post #1545 of 5317 Old 10-07-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Steel sailboats are better for offshore - more displacement.
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post #1546 of 5317 Old 10-07-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by jabe View Post
Steel sailboats are better for offshore - more displacement.
Oh Oh!
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I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #1547 of 5317 Old 10-07-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Bob - if he said it the way you said it above, there would be absolutely no problem at all.

The problem is - what you say he says, and what he actually types are two completely different things.

That said, if you want to interpret what he types the way you have - that's fine. It's just that most people don't see it the way you do - regardless of the number of figures in their bank account.

I see he liked your clarification, so maybe everything you said is what he means to say, but just doesn't have the communication skills to do so. That would explain a lot of things.
whew, Bob speaks well for steel but he is forgetting that one could make a car with four inch Armour plate then drive letting others just bounce off but the price paid in energy expended to move all that extra weight is more than most of us wish to bear no matter what our income. Not a matter of what one can afford as what's best for the world and future generations. When I don't fly, boat, I drive a vw Golf TDI, the prius eater, only because I have little desire to squander non renewable resources. The fact is for small craft steel requires just too much energy to move from point a to b. Basic engineering.
I'm sure you engineering types can grasp the concept
That said I love steel boats, they are realistically just not cost effective under 50 feet
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post #1548 of 5317 Old 10-07-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by jabe View Post
Steel sailboats are better for offshore - more displacement.
In and of itself simply adding displacement does nothing good for a boat, especially offshore. Weight does not automatically add to stability, weight does not inherently add to motion comfort, it does not inherently increase strength, nor does it automatically add to carrying capacity. Excess weight, especially in the wrong places hurts all of these things, plus it makes a boat harder to handly and hurts performance. But that's a topic for another thread.

Respectfully,
Jeff


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post #1549 of 5317 Old 10-07-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
In and of itself simply adding displacement does nothing good for a boat, especially offshore. Weight does not automatically add to stability, weight does not inherently add to motion comfort, it does not inherently increase strength, nor does it automatically add to carrying capacity. Excess weight, especially in the wrong places hurts all of these things, plus it makes a boat harder to handly and hurts performance. But that's a topic for another thread.

Respectfully,
Jeff
Jrff, one mistake, weigh decreases carrying capacity. A vessel of a given volume will displace x amount of water. any weight added will decrease its carrying capacity or payload. A Tupperware wood AL boat being lighter will have a greater payload than a steel boat of the same size.That's why I stated that under 50 feet steel was more of a liability than asset unless you are a habitual reef banger.
that sai8d I still like steel vessels of any size
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post #1550 of 5317 Old 10-07-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Jabe:
Welcome to the debate.
"Steel sailboats are better for offshore - more displacement.

I'd like to know exactly how you figure that.

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Last edited by bobperry; 10-08-2013 at 12:15 AM.
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