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  #1631  
Old 10-11-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Had humanity let them call the shots, we would have never made it out of the stone age
True. At least you got as far as the bronze age before you started cruising.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Concerning the discussion of the modern design as contributed by JeffH, Perry, and PCP: I have delivered 3 different Tayana 37’s off shore. I’ve also delivered and day sailed an Alajuela 38, an 80+ year old Atkin, Ingrid design. The Alajuela 38 is, without question, the faster, more comfortable sea boat. Yes, the Tayana 37 has all the better numbers; D/L ratio, SA/D, prismatic coefficient, wetted surface, etc. Everything is better, except it is slower. Perry got the shape wrong. As he has done on other designs. Simply designing to the formulas doesn’t do it.
A few months ago, PCP stated some performance data for his New Bavaria 38. The data showed it to be on par with an Atkin 36.
In many of the discussions by JeffH, “motion comfort” of the modern design is touted. In my experience, I have to say “No Way”. The lighter, flatter bottomed boat pounds FAR more than the older, heavier, good designs. This, to the point where many human beings simply can’t take it. What is acceptable for a day sail, during a weather window, is not acceptable for 2000 miles. I believe if Perry and JeffH actually did a little long distance voyaging, they might word their praise of the modern designs a little differently.
For what it is worth, I like the Tayana 37. It is a fine long distance cruising boat. A very viable option. But it is slower than the 80 year old Alajuela 38 design.
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  #1633  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregonian View Post
Concerning the discussion of the modern design as contributed by JeffH, Perry, and PCP: I have delivered 3 different Tayana 37’s off shore. I’ve also delivered and day sailed an Alajuela 38, an 80+ year old Atkin, Ingrid design. The Alajuela 38 is, without question, the faster, more comfortable sea boat. Yes, the Tayana 37 has all the better numbers; D/L ratio, SA/D, prismatic coefficient, wetted surface, etc. Everything is better, except it is slower. Perry got the shape wrong. As he has done on other designs. Simply designing to the formulas doesn’t do it.
A few months ago, PCP stated some performance data for his New Bavaria 38. The data showed it to be on par with an Atkin 36.
In many of the discussions by JeffH, “motion comfort” of the modern design is touted. In my experience, I have to say “No Way”. The lighter, flatter bottomed boat pounds FAR more than the older, heavier, good designs. This, to the point where many human beings simply can’t take it. What is acceptable for a day sail, during a weather window, is not acceptable for 2000 miles. I believe if Perry and JeffH actually did a little long distance voyaging, they might word their praise of the modern designs a little differently.
For what it is worth, I like the Tayana 37. It is a fine long distance cruising boat. A very viable option. But it is slower than the 80 year old Alajuela 38 design.
PHRF Ratings:

ALAJUELA 38, 216
TAYANA 37, 174

Sorry dude. But it's probably more the case that you're kinda doing it wrong.
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 10-11-2013 at 11:25 PM.
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  #1634  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

OK Britt. You are going to have a lot of fun so long as you don't mind looking stupid
from time to time. But I took up golf at 40 so I know well about looking stupid.

It's all fun.

I'll help when I can
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Oregonian:
You have some personal issue that has nothing to do with boats. Sorry I have upset you.
You always seem to come around whining about something. Chill. Lighten up. It's SAILNG. Maybe you should get together with Brent. You guys can sit around and have an angry fest. The two of you always seem to turn sailig into an angry thing. WTF is that?

I think Smack has it correct. If you can't sail to the PHRF numbers you are doing it wrong. I could tell some Alajuela owner stories but I'll save them. They are choice. They are not my stories they are the stories the owners came to me with. I'll save them.
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Last edited by bobperry; 10-11-2013 at 11:51 PM.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Go to bed jeff.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I noticed Brent didn't bother to address his earlier "indiscretion" on displacement math.

I really don't understand why he won't just set you guys straight. Obviously, he's holding back - not wanting to embarrass you guys. He's a good man. And he can stick to talking points like Chuck Norris can kick.

Just wait. At some point my man BS will feel you and Jeff are finally worthy of some straightening out on the whole calculus thing. I sure wanna be here when that happens...you pompous gits who work for The Man.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Smackenheimer:
Brent will never address his stupid remarks about flotation. There is just no rebuttal. I kind of resent having to debate the elements of yacht design with someone who is still struggling with Archimedes Principle.

I struggled with it when I was 14 years old. But I eventually got it. Now I have it nailed.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Smackenheimer:
Brent will never address his stupid remarks about flotation. There is just no rebuttal. I kind of resent having to debate the elements of yacht design with someone who is still struggling with Archimedes Principle.

I struggled with it when I was 14 years old. But I eventually got it. Now I have it nailed.
I think Brent and I had Archimedes' Principle in elementary school. That guy was a total dick (though the Assistant Principle was hot). You HAVE to struggle with dudes like that in order to cruise on $20 per year. We obviously won that struggle, baby.

Just wait Bob. When Brent finishes his ice cream - he'll school you like Socrates' Substitute.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I have to go to bed. There are salmon out there and they will be swimming past my house at 6am and I need to be out there so I can kill them. That's my hope. It doesn't work that way. Today I bought the magic lure. But I don't have much hope for it. Not to worry. I am not the angry, uptight type. F,,,, ack the fish.

The good news is I will stand at the shoreline, watching my dogs eat the **** on the beach, smoking my corncob, thinking about my son and life in general and that will be a good morning, The best I can have anyway. Good enough for me.
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Last edited by bobperry; 10-12-2013 at 12:03 AM.
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