Pros and cons of steel sailboats - Page 169 - SailNet Community
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post #1681 of 5317 Old 10-13-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

David is fuglier than I am, but one will still need blinders if I show up!

That is the truth per this rug rat!

oh, or maybe the cute boat dog Mr Winston!
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post #1682 of 5317 Old 10-14-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Ahoy PCP: I made an error in a statement and I must apologize. In a post on 3-13-13 on the “Full or Fin Keel” thread you referenced the Bavaria brand a number of times and I misinterpreted that as you owning one. Obviously you own a Comet 41. At any rate you gave the following data: 6.5k in apparent winds of 18k @ 28 degrees, in difficult conditions. I stated that those numbers are on a par with an Atkin 36, an 80 year old design. Your latest claim is that your boat outperforms the old design by a “huge margin”. My latest claim: “once again you are guilty of a huge exaggeration”.
Perry, You say “How do you back up that claim? Ridiculous”. look at the numbers Perry, as claimed by PCP. Are those numbers really that much better than a well sailed Cape George 36 or perhaps the old African Star? Well, I don’t think so.
Also, I only referenced the Tayana 37 because it had been previously referenced on page 162 by JeffH. Like yourself, I do not consider it a “benchmark” design.
“I can appreciate the modern designs for what they are and, not for what they are not.
For what it is worth, I am not angry but am chilled.
Help yourself to more coolAid Perry.
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post #1683 of 5317 Old 10-14-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregonian View Post
Ahoy PCP: I made an error in a statement and I must apologize. In a post on 3-13-13 on the “Full or Fin Keel” thread you referenced the Bavaria brand a number of times and I misinterpreted that as you owning one. Obviously you own a Comet 41. At any rate you gave the following data: 6.5k in apparent winds of 18k @ 28 degrees, in difficult conditions. I stated that those numbers are on a par with an Atkin 36, an 80 year old design. Your latest claim is that your boat outperforms the old design by a “huge margin”. My latest claim: “once again you are guilty of a huge exaggeration”.
Perry, You say “How do you back up that claim? Ridiculous”. look at the numbers Perry, as claimed by PCP. Are those numbers really that much better than a well sailed Cape George 36 or perhaps the old African Star? Well, I don’t think so.
Also, I only referenced the Tayana 37 because it had been previously referenced on page 162 by JeffH. Like yourself, I do not consider it a “benchmark” design.
“I can appreciate the modern designs for what they are and, not for what they are not.
For what it is worth, I am not angry but am chilled.
Help yourself to more coolAid Perry.
So noobie, you consider yourself to be more knowledgeable about sailboat performance than RP - one of the worlds preeminent yacht designers with hundreds of designs and thousands of boats to his credit over the past 40 odd years?

How many boats have YOU designed? Lets see some of them.

Oh, none is it?

Maybe it's time for a little introspection on your part.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #1684 of 5317 Old 10-14-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by Oregonian View Post
..Obviously you own a Comet 41. At any rate you gave the following data: 6.5k in apparent winds of 18k @ 28 degrees, in difficult conditions. I stated that those numbers are on a par with an Atkin 36, an 80 year old design. Your latest claim is that your boat outperforms the old design by a “huge margin”. My latest claim: “once again you are guilty of a huge exaggeration”.
....
I don't like to make claims about the sailing performance about my boat and I have done so because you clearly were messing up but the performance and even the boat I own. My boat is not very different in performance from any modern fast performance cruiser with a good upwind potential, we could be talking about a First 40 or a Salona 41 that would have a very similar performance.





Your claim that a 36ft full keel 40 year sailboat could be similar or even close to the one of a modern 41ft cruiser/racer is just ridiculous.

I don't know if a Atkins 36 can make in perfect conditions 6.5K very close to the wind, but with 2m short period waves and 13k of trw that boat would not make 6.5K on those conditions even at a much bigger wind angle.

Is an Atkins 36 able to do 28º off the apparent wind even in perfect conditions? I doubt it. I have not many experience with full keel boats, maybe Bob can tell us if that is possible.

Regards

Paulo


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Last edited by PCP; 10-14-2013 at 08:29 AM.
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post #1685 of 5317 Old 10-14-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Please que up some background music for this post.
I'd like SOMEWHERE OVER THE RAINBOW please.
Maybe we should go with Izzy's version. That's my fav.

Paulo:

You and I and most of the posters here know this is beyond possible.

No, it's not possible and to even think the two boats would even be close in performance shows a true lack of experience with the range of boats. It's really silly. It's beyond silly.
I can't imagine how Oregon could think that. Has he ever sailed a modern boat?

" 6.5k in apparent winds of 18k @ 28 degrees, in difficult conditions. I stated that those numbers are on a par with an Atkin 36, an 80 year old design."

So if I can read English, Oregon is saying an 80 year old Atkin design can go to weather with an AWA of 28 degrees.

No, not possible. But kind of funny.
AWA 38 degrees might be possible.

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Bob's Blog ....

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Last edited by bobperry; 10-14-2013 at 09:54 AM.
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post #1686 of 5317 Old 10-14-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by Oregonian View Post
For what it is worth, I am not angry but am chilled...
...and wrong.


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post #1687 of 5317 Old 10-14-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Look what came up on Yachtworld today:

2002 Brent Swain 36 ft custom built Sail Boat For Sale -

Someone should go check it out!

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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by Rhys05 View Post
Look what came up on Yachtworld today:

2002 Brent Swain 36 ft custom built Sail Boat For Sale -

Someone should go check it out!
Bushnell's Dove IV is actually one of the nicest BS Boats I've ever seen. The interior is very well done (which is rarely the case) and she appears to be immaculately maintained. She's also very well equipped with the expensive "yachty absurdities" Brent likes to continually decry.

What's sad is that this is actually the PERFECT specimen of a BS Yacht. A lot of time and money has gone into it. And yet it can only command an asking price of $56,000 (+$63 for Brent's royalty). Definitely a value problem with these boats.
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post #1689 of 5317 Old 10-14-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Bushnell's Dove IV is actually one of the nicest BS Boats I've ever seen. The interior is very well done (which is rarely the case) and she appears to be immaculately maintained. She's also very well equipped with the expensive "yachty absurdities" Brent likes to continually decry.

What's sad is that this is actually the PERFECT specimen of a BS Yacht. A lot of time and money has gone into it. And yet it can only command an asking price of $56,000 (+$63 for Brent's royalty). Definitely a value problem with these boats.
Yep, not a bad looking boat. A disappointing lack of numbers though (weight, sail area, etc.) I definitely agree with the terrible resale value, I would imagine that some of that is due to being from steel and some from having the "home-built" stigma attached to it. Not a boat I would personally be interested in, but could be a very good deal for someone that wants that type of boat.

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post #1690 of 5317 Old 10-14-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Whomever did the interior did an absolute fabulous job on that BS boat. Outside is ok, good boat for around here in the drizzly weather we can get etc.

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