Pros and cons of steel sailboats - Page 179 - SailNet Community

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  #1781  
Old 10-19-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Row away factor is #1 to me, then performance, then build quality - you can always improve on a given boats build but not its basic design.

Row away factor is totally subjective though - I like a number of boats that many consider ugly - my last Columbia 43 for example.

Not many good looking steel boats out there IMHO. I like the Reve D'Antilles, mostly because it has a flush deck and looks rather racer/brutal.

Waterline built some nice ones locally but they generally weren't of a style I cared for.
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  #1782  
Old 10-19-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Smack:
Yes I think I used "gestalt" in reference to my doppelanger.
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  #1783  
Old 10-20-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Had a great day today.......got two, yes TWO sloopers out of the deal today! Overall win in NFS division 1, with 2 bullets and a 2nd corrected to 1st. and 1st OVERALL nfs.....wish I could say there was more than one division.....but, what the hey! anytime one wins TWO sloopers. gotta be a good day! will post pics when brain is not drunk on two sloopers!

I like my boat too. I could row this one to the end of the earth too! but like ALL things great and small, one can find a better one I am sure. just do not let amoretto know! Now MR WInston on the other hand......that will be a really tough one to replace, best doggie I have had!

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  #1784  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Conga rats Marty.
Sounds like you had great day. Stayed foggy here all day until late afternoon.
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  #1785  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Thought we had two bullets. First race we finished in first, first OA in 3 hrs 5 min, only to find out there is/was a blinken 3 hr time limit! only 9 of 36 boat finished in the time limit, with 3 of 5 divisions having NO ONE that finished in the allotted time. Talk about a let down. oh well, they did appear to gun us in the way in!

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  #1786  
Old 10-20-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

To me, as an architect of buildings, the design process is iterative with multiple loops before I get to a final design. It starts at a very functional level, creating a written understanding of the project goals and constraints. Checking out views, privacy issues, solar and prevailing breezes, as well as other site constraints. That first step always feels cold and mathematical. It feels like being forced to eat the vegetables before you can have desert. But then starts the conceptual stage, rolling the pieces and parts around in my mind- a sense of joyful play with a mental rubek cube organizing the pieces and parts to solve the functional puzzle and in the process, beginning to mentally develop the aesthetics of the design. Often I have the design clear in my head before putting pencil to paper in earnest. That said, like many architects and designers of my generation, I visualize in three dimensional sketches and I will produce small sketches as a way of organizing my thinking and retaining parts of an idea. Even my earliest thought process tries to consider the technical aspects of how a design can be constructed to a relatively high level of detail. By the time the design gets drafted as a schematic design, I usually understand how such practicalities as structure, materials, heating and cooling, etc. will work.

This conceptual stage of the project is the most joyful for me, but a also the most stressful. I see this stage as being drought with traps. The most creative part of me, sees a wide array of potential directions but the realistic side knows I can only pursue one of these. There is always this leap of faith that I will have chosen the right one.

Any designer worth their salt understands the tightrope walking without a net that is involved in being creative for a living, and having to be creative on demand. It is the challenge, tension and ecstasy of what we do. But it is this moment that is my favorite part of what I do. But I also truly enjoy getting to know most of my clients. I also really enjoy solving and inventing technical solutions to make the project's aesthetic objectives technically sound.

As to the row away factor, I love beautiful boats. I love seeing them. They bring joy to my day. But oddly enough, my view of my own boat's are closer to Brent's even though our tastes are clearly different than Brent's. But to me a boat is simply a tool, a very sophisticated tool, but a tool none the less. It's reason for being is to function well in the ways it was designed to be used.

But like any well designed tool, there is an appealing aesthetic that derives from the simple visual expression of the purposeful sinew and muscle that makes that tool work well. I know this to result in a very different row away aesthetic sense than you might find in the sailing community at large. And that is okay with me since I also appreciate the more normally accepted sense of aesthetics as long as it's not my boat.

Respectfully
Jeff
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  #1787  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Jeff:
I think you and I are on the same page. There can be a lot of beauty in a well designed work boat. We have fleets of beautiful fishing boats all around the PNW. We have some butt ugly onse too. Bill Garden did some fiosh boats that are works of art.

Marty:
Sounds like I picked the right day NOT to try racing a Baba 35 ph. That could have been very painful.
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  #1788  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

On the question of attractive steel designs, when I worked with Charlie Wittholz we would discuss the issues of designing hard chine boats. To me, I have a hard time justifying the cost to produce a design with full compound curves in steel so to me the best use of steel involves addressing chine construction. Charlie's Chines followed patterns which evolved from traditional wooden boat types. They were essentially vee bottom boats with conic sections. The shape of the chines as the crossed the topside became a defining character setting part of the design. These sweeps were purposely massaged until they were attractive from all angles since boats are rarely perceived solely in profile or head on as they were drafted back then.

Today there is a performance boat aesthetic emerging from race boats that is very different from designs from the past. Visually I have not yet learned to like it, but I understand from a performance standpoint. I think this new aesthetic lends itself nicely to metal, and I would think that steel would be a viable material for larger versions of that aesthetic.
Jeff
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Last edited by Jeff_H; 10-20-2013 at 12:42 PM.
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  #1789  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I agree Jeff. The well placed chine can really enhance the lines of a boat. Chines certainly do not have to be ugly.
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  #1790  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I ran across this site http://www.sv-restless.com/ a few years back, and was very impressed by the look, workmanship, and dedication Bob put into building Restless. One beautiful steel boat...worth a look....

Last edited by bob77903; 10-20-2013 at 02:18 PM.
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