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  #171  
Old 07-16-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Wow that was smooth.From weight to insulting someones wife.I bet you make friends all over.
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  #172  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
need no fairing, but if you have a hull you have to fair, then fairing is best done from the inside , with a hydraulic jack on a telescoping pole.
That is clever. Wouldn't have thought of that.

What do you use for bottom paint or the more accurately the whole bottom maintenance process.
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  #173  
Old 07-16-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Have you guys seen this guys wife? Aesthetics?
No argueing with the weight given by a government highway scale.
Bedtime. Getin dark, too dark to see.
Okay - all debating aside...that was a seriously douchey thing to say, Brent. You're messing with family. Sailors don't do that. Ever.

You owe Bob an apology.
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  #174  
Old 07-16-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Smacks:
Brent doesn't know my wife apparently and I do not need an apology. His comment was one made out of desperation to change the subject. What's next? "Yoiu mother wears army boots"? He's a real class act.
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  #175  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidpm View Post
As for the rest of you I don't read what Brent says as untruthful as much as from a different world.
David, I can kind of see your point. He's definitely from a different world. But there's no world I know of where it's okay to disparage your own customers and even other people's family.

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Originally Posted by davidpm View Post
The days are probably a little more that 8 hours.
There was significant preparation before the building started (days or weeks)
It is not going to look like a Catalina when it is done.
Fairing and painting can take as long as I want to play with it.

The chances of me being able to scrounge enough for the rig, interior, propulsion etc is not likely. That hasn't been my world.

So the chances of it working out for me is slim.
This is precisely the point I'm trying to make in this debate with Brent. The chances of success in building/completing/cruising a BS boat for ANY "cruiser wannabe" that doesn't have a great deal of foreknowledge and experience in steelwork and yacht systems (as well as a tremendous amount of time and money) is, as you say, very slim.

You sail a good bit. You understand boats. And you understand this reality. Do his potential "cruiser wannabe" customers who simply listen to his promises and read his book?

Brent is so entrenched in "his world" that he thinks it's the only world. Anyone that's not a part of it is a sucker, a shyster, or a fool. This is the problem. He is completely unable to be objective. And this makes him claim things that are obviously and provably not true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidpm View Post
I don't doubt that Brent has done exactly what he has said such as welding up a steel 36' hull in a couple days.
Actually, I don't doubt it either. But that's the problem - he passes this off as typical in the process. He can't grasp the fact that having decades of experience doing just this (as well as the proper tools and space necessary) is the key to being able to do it. A cruiser wannabe that listens to his claims thinks this is just how BS boats go together. He shells out the money for the plans, the steel, the tools, the space - then realizes it's not quite what he was promised.

If Brent could be honest about what it really takes a new, green boatbuilder to finish one of his boats, I would have some respect for him. Instead, he calls his customers liars, drunks and dope smokers for not doing what he promised them they could do. It's their fault - not his.

I have no respect for people like that.

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Trying to compare what Brent does to what Bob does doesn't make any sense at all. The product is too different. The people drawn to one or the other is too different.
I totally agree with you here. There is absolutely no comparison. Yet, Brent claims that his designs and boats are inherently superior.

That is definitely a different world.
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  #176  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I am interested in something. Honestly.

Are there people out there reading this thread who are interested in building a steel boat? If so, what do you think about all this?
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  #177  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I get to go sailing today. Yippeeee! I have a new custom boat client and he wants me to sail with him on his currrent boat so we can go over the features he wants on the new boat. It's a nice day here so it should be fun. I'll leave you guys to deal with BS. Clearly he does not want to show us a weight study. Don't think he has one. Just asking to see one seemed to push him over the edge. I could post the weights for the SLIVER project. Not sure what that would accomplish though. So far we are within 200 lbs. of the predicted weight. If we can stay aroound 200 lbs. I'll be happy. Given the fact that the boat is a daysailer I don't have to deal with a big variable as far as "personal effects" goes. The client is fastidious about keeping junk off the boat.
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  #178  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I am interested in something. Honestly.

Are there people out there reading this thread who are interested in building a steel boat? If so, what do you think about all this?
Smack,

I am pretty experienced at working in sheet metals, and I have gotten paid a lot of money to weld stuff that was x-rayed, pressure tested, and inspected very tightly, and I would not attempt to build a steel boat unless I was in a full service sheet metal shop with a plasma cutting table, a heavy steel break, roller, and all the rest of the stuff you would find in an industrial fabrication and machine shop.

I am fairly sure most wannabe cruisers do not have this, which as far as I can see is the only reason they would consider a BS design in the first place. I certainly would not build a blue water cruiser out of steel without using frames, because I would want to be able to isolate compartments using some of those frames, and I would want to have the rigidity that the frames would give not only my hull, but my deck and my cabin sole, plus that it would give a nice place to hang stuff that I wanted to mount, like conduit and plumbing.

I certainly am among the few I know with the skills to do the job, though I am far out of practice, I have not forgotten, and I still do some welding and fabrication for a couple of charity organizations from time to time. Most people are not certified welders, do not have any skills in working sheet metal, and certainly do not have a shop with overhead cranes, welding machines, torches, plasma cutters, grinders, a brake, a roller, or a sheer and this stuff is expensive.

This little gem is $24,500.00 and you would need it to build a steel hull boat of any size or you would need to pay someone to use theirs.




By the way, if you have one of those and a press roller and all the other stuff in a nice big high ceiling shop, say 80 feet high, located directly on the waterfront please feel free to contact me, we might be able to build something.
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  #179  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

An awful lot of steel boats get built by an awful lot of uncertified welders without big shops.
In fact, most of them.
Hundreds of steel fishtugs upwards of 60 feet in length have been constructed locally over the last century, wit no plasma cutter in sight, in the open air, by small shipyards.
They ain't pretty, but they work.
It's not rocket surgery.
But, like ferrocement, it doesn't make a whole lot of economic sense anymore, with a glut of boats on the market that can be had for far far less than the materials to build a boat.
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  #180  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by bljones View Post
An awful lot of steel boats get built by an awful lot of uncertified welders without big shops.
In fact, most of them.
Hundreds of steel fishtugs upwards of 60 feet in length have been constructed locally over the last century, wit no plasma cutter in sight, in the open air, by small shipyards.
They ain't pretty, but they work.
It's not rocket surgery.
But, like ferrocement, it doesn't make a whole lot of economic sense anymore, with a glut of boats on the market that can be had for far far less than the materials to build a boat.
Boats, not yachts, sailing yachts are meant to be beautiful creatures, works of art in motion, not a bathtub with a sail hoisted above it. To build a living creature like a truly beautiful yacht you do not do it in such a grotesque manner, you also would not wish to slap together the bride of Frankenstein type things I have seen as BS designs. A true steel sailing yacht is not built in some Godawful cow lot with bubble gum and bailing wire, it is lovingly crafted by artisans in a controlled environment where they have the equipment, time, and shelter needed to work on bringing her to life as a fluid sculpture, a melding of land, sea, air, and water in a thing of beauty, not some garbage scow with a sail.
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