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  #1791  
Old 10-20-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

One of the things that we struggle with in producing large composite aerospace structures is maximizing the width of the composite tape that we can use to build up the structures efficiently. Some of the flat-patterning issues Bob has been discussing regarding his peapod dinghy is relevant, I think. I expect we have something to learn from the people that have been doing this for boats for so long.

No chines on airplanes.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

That is a beautiful steel boat. I'm not wild about the design but the execution is flawless.
Kind of raises the bar for steel.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Another issue we are dealing with is the "black aluminum" problem...

We tend to follow what we know, and that can result in designing using structural concepts that were designed for aluminum, instead of inventing/finding new ones more appropriate to the very different characteristics of composites.

The result is an airplane design in carbon composites that is very similar to the structure of an aluminum airplane..

Hence: the "black aluminum" problem...

Different aerospace companies have this problem to different degrees.

It would also be fair to say that proceeding with innovation slowly has its benefits.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
That is a beautiful steel boat. I'm not wild about the design but the execution is flawless.
Kind of raises the bar for steel.
It's a long site http://www.sv-restless.com/, but in the build he said he wanted a steel boat with no chines or corners. He accomplished it quite well in my opinion....

Last edited by bob77903; 10-20-2013 at 03:21 PM.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

In what regards steel boats I like some of Ed Rutherford designs. Expensive boats but certainly very strong ones and not that slow, specially the big ones.



Project Gallery >> Designers and builder's of fine metal boats >> Waterline Yachts

http://www.waterline-yachts.com/down...ingJul2004.pdf
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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No chines on airplanes.
Actually, there are - the "edge" down the middle of the fuselage on the SR71 was called a chine. The F117 is nothing BUT chines and the new fighters are much like the SR71 in being "split" above & below a fuselage chine.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Actually, there are - the "edge" down the middle of the fuselage on the SR71 was called a chine. The F117 is nothing BUT chines and the new fighters are much like the SR71 in being "split" above & below a fuselage chine.
Excellent point. You are correct. I will tell a short story to avert attention from my error.

Back in the 1980s I did some contract work at the Lockheed Skunk Works in Burbank. I had never seen such high security. I thought it was all pretty ridiculous, since the parts I saw being machined didn't look all that special. I they didn't look "curvy" enough to be aerodynamic surfaces. I remember one that looked a lot like the oil pan for a 350 Chevy engine.

It wasn't until much later, that I realized the reason for the strange angular parts.

They were for the F-117!
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

For those of us not of the aerospace pursuasion I wish you guys would post pics of the planes you talk about. I am very interested I just don't know the planes by their technical names. Blackbird?

Dave's comment on learning how to use CF hit home. When we first starting using it to "reinforce" areas built in oridinary grp we soon learned that CF did not always "load share" well with other materials. In the yacht design business we typically do not have the engineering budget to do extensive engineering studies with new materials. Back in the old Ballard days when I had my hands on a new material I would take it out onto the stair landing and pound on it with a hammer. No, I'm not kidding.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Tripp senior drove his Jag roadster over early fiberglass laminates so you were following in an honoured tradition.

I remember back in the 80's a guy brought some surplus/scrap Boeing carbon/aluminium honeycomb pieces to the local boatyard. I was absolutely stunned and fascinated by them - a piece around 12" X 8" X 3/4" (IIRC) was so weightless I couldn't believe it - noticeably lighter than plain balsa. We "curbed" it - put on an angle between a support and the ground - and were unable to deflect it ANY visible amount - that's 220 Lbs stomping on it. It was amazing - and that was about 30 years ago. What they make at a place like Lockheed now must be pure science fiction.

Bob - here are the planes with chines
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Jon:
Thanks muchly for that tid bit on info that I had been looking for for years. I always had an inkling that Tripp drove a Jag. Seems sillly to even care but, I'm weird. I do.

Yep, when the comment was made that planes have no chines I thought , now wait just a cotton pickin' minute. What about the stealth fighter ad the blackbird? Hell, on the stealth even the chines have chines.
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