Pros and cons of steel sailboats - Page 185 - SailNet Community
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post #1841 of 5317 Old 10-24-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Just got off the phone with Yves-Marie. He will be here later.

We had a good chat. He has lots of experience with the origami method and he has been doing a lot of alu and steel boats lately. Keep in mind that Yves-Marie has designed just about every kind of boat imaginable, from state of the art racing machines to large power yachts. He has a ton of design experience and a good eye.

He talks funny though.
Very cool. I've admired his designs for nearly 40 years now.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #1842 of 5317 Old 10-24-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by Faster View Post
Poor guy's gotta read through this entire thread first!... could be a while
Oh crap. My BS Yachts Marketing Program post alone will take him 2-1/2 weeks.


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post #1843 of 5317 Old 10-24-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Yves-Marie knows BS's work. I'll let him speak on that himself. But Yves-Marie is pretty low key and I can't see him responding to any of the typcial BS stuff.

Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


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Bob's Blog ....

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post #1844 of 5317 Old 10-24-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Just got off the phone with Yves-Marie. He will be here later.

We had a good chat. He has lots of experience with the origami method and he has been doing a lot of alu and steel boats lately. Keep in mind that Yves-Marie has designed just about every kind of boat imaginable, from state of the art racing machines to large power yachts. He has a ton of design experience and a good eye.

He talks funny though.
That is very cool! (I hope he isn't upset that I posted his Steelstar drawing without permission.)

Thank you for doing that,
Jeff


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post #1845 of 5317 Old 10-24-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Jeff:
I can't imagine that Yves-Marie would be anything but pleased that you did that. I would be.

Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


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post #1846 of 5317 Old 10-24-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Jeff:
I can't imagine that Yves-Marie would be anything but pleased that you did that. I would be.
That's good to hear. I always worry about copying other people's copyrighted work. Yves-Marie is a very interesting designer. He tends to be very creative. I came close to buying an old 3/4 tonner that was his design. It was a cool boat in a lot of ways. They showed me the drawings for that boat. It was amazing how efficiently he conveyed information. There was very few sheets of drawings, but my recollection was that there was an extensive amount of information in simple form in an almost diagrammatic style contained on them.

By contrast, I was amazed when I saw a full set of drawings for my boat. There were a comparatively large number of sheets, and there were a surprising amount detail on each, showing almost any detail you could think of including keel bolt backing plate diagrams and rudder post stuffing box details.

The odd thing is that when I look at pictures of sister ships to my boat there are big deviations in how they are actually constructed. The thing I can't get over is how extreme the things are which are left out, especially consideing the careful detailing. Fo rexample Farr used a series of glassed in transverse bulkheads and stringers for his framing, and that quite a few of the boats are missing several of the bulkheads. Who thought that was a good idea? These boats were designed with cored decks, but mine has no coring, using thicker glass and a series of small frames.

Jeff
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post #1847 of 5317 Old 10-24-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
That's good to hear. I always worry about copying other people's copyrighted work. Yves-Marie is a very interesting designer. He tends to be very creative. I came close to buying an old 3/4 tonner that was his design. It was a cool boat in a lot of ways. They showed me the drawings for that boat. It was amazing how efficiently he conveyed information. There was very few sheets of drawings, but my recollection was that there was an extensive amount of information in simple form in an almost diagrammatic style contained on them.

By contrast, I was amazed when I saw a full set of drawings for my boat. There were a comparatively large number of sheets, and there were a surprising amount detail on each, showing almost any detail you could think of including keel bolt backing plate diagrams and rudder post stuffing box details.

The odd thing is that when I look at pictures of sister ships to my boat there are big deviations in how they are actually constructed. The thing I can't get over is how extreme the things are which are left out, especially consideing the careful detailing. Fo rexample Farr used a series of glassed in transverse bulkheads and stringers for his framing, and that quite a few of the boats are missing several of the bulkheads. Who thought that was a good idea? These boats were designed with cored decks, but mine has no coring, using thicker glass and a series of small frames.

Jeff
That shows the beauty of origami construction. It is so simple that it doesn't take a whole pile of drawings. A huge pile of drawings is a warning of a boat which is needlessly complex, from a designer who lacks the genius of keeping things simple.
As Einstien said
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex.
It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction."
Many have built my designs with a zero further questions. They found all they needed in the plans , my book and Alex's video. Gerd Meuller said the book didn't have a huge amount of content on origami construction, but then I he realized the process was so simple that it contained all there was to be said about it. Some tell me they find new stuff on their sixth reading of it.
Bob, after you get your skiff done , maybe its time you started designing larger aluminium boats for origami construction ( with radiused chines if you please). Cruisers need alternatives to the expensive, complexity of traditionally constructed designs. I'll be happy to help you out with the learning process, as I'm sure other origami boat designers like Tanton and Graham Shannon would .

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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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It's pretty simple really...The Pros and Cons of Steel Sailboats.

One of the primary cons is that most of the examples have been less than pretty. PCP's examples show that this needn't be the case. There are some really beautiful steel yachts out there.

One question now is - can origami steel boats be beautiful? That would be a "pro".
Unlike other types of steel construction , origami boats can be beautiful without the filler and 40,000 dollar paint jobs. They are naturally fair, being made from full sized sheets, eliminating the many seams and welds, which are the source of distortion in other building methods.

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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Must take one hell of a big sheet to do the origami fold up thing on a boat that size.
The biggest sheet of steel I ever worked with was a 12 ft by 60 ft sheet of half inch plate, while working for Canron in the 70's . I used two 25 ton cranes on it. It was laid out to be cut into small pieces.
Steel is shipped in coils, up to 150 feet long, like huge rolls of toilet paper , to be flattened and cut to whatever length the supplier wants to deal with, at the destination.

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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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What a great book. I bought my copy at a flea market about 10 years ago and paid about $3 for it. He did a follow up book (I've forgotten the title, but it was something like "The Proper Yacht, Vol. 2") that I also have (forgot how I obtained that one). I didn't find the second book as much fun as the first; probably because it focussed on fiberglass boats of a vintage that did not excite me that much. As I recall, the first book profiled only one fiberglass boat, the Allied Seabreeze (a boat I find particularly fetching).
That book shows up in flea markets for good reason. Its a total bucket of crap. When I was a beginner, I'm embarrassed to admit that I was conned into buying a copy. Ended up using it for fire starter in my wood stove, to eliminate the chance of some sucker believing it. It is entirely a preaching of "Style over substance" priorities .
No, a storm at sea is NOT a "Fashion show". Nor is the chance of colliding with floating debris. Nor are the consequences of hitting a container on a foggy night , nor a grounding on a lee shore. Seamanship is about safety , not a "fashion show". Seamanship is NOT following Bobs advice to go light and flimsy for that extra quarter knot, and just hope "Cosmic Karma " will save you, and if your boat is pretty , karma wouldn't dare sink you.
Bieser was the victim of his own foolishness when he sailed his very pretty and super complex yacht to mid Atlantic , where she started taking on water . He ran around closing the huge number of thru hulls but couldn't get them all closed in time to stop her from sinking. No, the beautiful teak decks and beautiful bright work didn't discourage reality form sinking her. So much for that theory!
Someone who has been thus proven so foolish, is not a good source of advice on cruising boat priorities!

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