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  #1851  
Old 10-24-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Last post about this. I don't like to be off topic: You can find one of those 7 year's old in Italy (where the used sailboats are cheap now due to the bad economic situation) for around 150 000 euros. They still make this model and you can buy a brand new one with the same hull but a faster keel, two wheel setup and a nicer more integrated geenaker pole by about 300 000 euros. No, it is not a Bob Perry design but he has designed boats as fast as this one and even faster (racers).

I don't know how fast she can go. I know that on the first sailing test with a full crew and strong wind they went to 18K. There is one racing (duo crew) right now on the Middle of the sea sail race and at one of the control points they were faster than several 40class racers. My boat is no racer and has a great (and heavy) cruising interior.

I sail solo (with my wife that likes to cook) and I am happy with the boat reaching easily 8K, even with weak winds and go occasionally at 11/12K downwind (without spinnaker).

Well, just to be on topic: You cannot do that with a 41ft steel boat

Regards

Paulo
Sounds like the way I would have to sail. Thanks fir the info, Looked at an old westsail 32 original owner yesterday that is building his own steel 53 footer. I didn't think the boat was gonna be worth anything and does need a complete refit but the hull looks like a ten year old well maintainedl all original gellcoat never painted. Really nice hull but the rest of the boat was in need of replaceing, at least that's what it looked like to me. Can you imaging an old guy late sixtires building a 53 foot...I think he said ketch.
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  #1852  
Old 10-24-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I'm chock a block with grp boats now. I just started a new 46'er yesterday for an East Coast client. This will be an amazing boat (he said modestly). I'll leave the origami boats you other guys. You have your niche Brent and I have mine. I'll stay with mine. I'm content with my little slice of the pie.

I like to provide as many drawings as I can. My clients don't expect to be making build decisions. I really don't think Einstein had you in mind when he said that Brent. I've seen your drawings.

I like to provide a nice crisp detailed drawing. I take pride in it and I am good at it. But I am a designer and I like to design.
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  #1853  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJohns View Post
Sad to see so much downright dishonesty. Hard to imagine that someone could expect that it would go unnoticed. And all about info that's on public record which is a bit dumb.

I'm the one Brent refers to as "claiming to be a Naval Architect"
I'm a PEng who works as a prof marine engineer. The anecdote above attributed to me is typical of Brent. It's also a complete distortion. I didn't make the claim about a square pressure hull. Nor anything about "13 inches of steel plate......." In fact what usually happens is that Brent makes it up something silly, attributes it someone, posts several times that they said it, then goes on to quote it on another forum.

Wynand the boilermaker and professional steel boatbuilder, who built such great examples of Dudly Dix's designs, didn't say he was a racist and proud of it. That's a bit of a sick statement. Nor were there any racist attacks on Brent. Everyone on BDnet treated him fairly, he just made a complete fool of himself. Again and Again. I like the one about the coastguard backing you up on that site, that's getting creative beyond even a hint of distorted truth.

Nothing Brent posts can be taken as reality without checking the facts first but I guess everyone knows that by now. I think this spiel of Brent's will make a few people angry since it's quite objectionable.

PS, Sorry my first post is a bit of a rant
Your comments were that shape has no effect on stiffness, which is the equivalent of stating that a square propane tank is the same strength as a round one. You pressed a spline in the middle, then claimed that a longitudinal would also bulge out near the ends while welded, and thus contained inside a steel hull, the same way your spline out in the open did. Wynand definitely declared himself a racist and proud of it. He also joined the attack on framlessness ,and only later admitted he had built a framless 38 ft Dix design, posted on the origami boats site. You also supported the notion that the steel under my mast support pipes, 13 inches of 3/16th plate, would break before the 3 -5/16th windward shrouds would, and that could happen in the first 4 hours ,. something which hasn't happened in over 40 years.
I stand by all my comments on that site.
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  #1854  
Old 10-24-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Unlike other types of steel construction , origami boats can be beautiful without the filler and 40,000 dollar paint jobs. They are naturally fair, being made from full sized sheets, eliminating the many seams and welds, which are the source of distortion in other building methods.
I guess this is where we just disagree. Beauty to you is a hull that's not wavy. Beauty to me is a hull that has a beautiful shape, an elegant form, artful proportions. That kind of hull doesn't need paint or filler or anything else to make it beautiful. It just IS beautiful.

Your boats are, without doubt, tough. And they're typically not that wavy. I just think there are far more beautiful steel boats out there. That's all I'm saying. (Many examples above.)
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 10-24-2013 at 06:45 PM.
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  #1855  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Your comments were that shape has no effect on stiffness, which is the equivalent of stating that a square propane tank is the same strength as a round one. You pressed a spline in the middle, then claimed that a longitudinal would also bulge out near the ends while welded, and thus contained inside a steel hull, the same way your spline out in the open did. Wynand definitely declared himself a racist and proud of it. He also joined the attack on framlessness ,and only later admitted he had built a framless 38 ft Dix design, posted on the origami boats site. You also supported the notion that the steel under my mast support pipes, 13 inches of 3/16th plate, would break before the 3 -5/16th windward shrouds would, and that could happen in the first 4 hours ,. something which hasn't happened in over 40 years.
I stand by all my comments on that site.
Actual quotes or it didn't happen (like most of the other things you claim people said).

If I can use your actual quotes in my BS Yachts Marketing Program post, you should be able to figure it out.
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  #1856  
Old 10-24-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Forget about the Noordkaper and company:
Paulo, I confess I love that style of European (Dutch ?) boats. To paraphrase the song lyric ... they move me.

Aren't there another couple of examples or has the GFC taken them down ? i remember when I was doing the YachtWorld circuit before we bought our girl that I spent some considerable time drooling over a couple of Euro boats that were of that semi classic style but very modern underwater.

I'll try and find them Beautiful boats, either steel or aluminium.


edit .... Bestewind was one of them .... the other boat in this pic is a Van de Stadt built by the same yard.





and this is the other ..... very similar to the previous boat Paulo posted or is it the same ? Not sure.




edit ... she's a Puffin 42
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Last edited by tdw; 10-24-2013 at 07:51 PM.
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  #1857  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Oh crap. My BS Yachts Marketing Program post alone will take him 2-1/2 weeks.
Been cruising, you know, that activity which boats are supposed to be about. Unlike some , I haven't spent the last couple of weeks siting in front of a computer, giving advice on something I rarely experience.
Internet access is shrinking in these islands.
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  #1858  
Old 10-24-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

But Brent, you come back from cruising the same angry little man. I don't think cruising is good for you. It seems to make you very uptight. Chill, relax in front of a computer for a few days. Learn to make a nice drawing. You will feel better.

Things have been going well here for a few days. I don't think we need your constant attacks on everything not BS. You are a bore.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Fuzzy:
Paulo is amazing. If it floats he can find it and post it. It's really an asset to have him posting those examples of great looking Euro metal boats. We need some class around here.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

"ternet access is shrinking in these islands. "

Great. That's good news.
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