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  #11  
Old 11-20-2012
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Thanks for all the feedback.
I'm not sure we're in the market for a newly built vessel - our budget is more aligned with 10- 20 year old boats.
I'm a novice welder and would like to find something that needs major TLC and new systems so I could put it together before heading out.
Weight and therefore slowness is something I thought might be an issue. We are shopping for something in the 40 to 45 foot range, so maybe the advice PCP gives about aluminium deserves a closer look - where could we find info about the French boats? I always thought aluminum was too expensive.
Center cockpit and aft cabin are also something that appeals to us. Cutter or Ketch both could work. The design of the Stevens 47 or the 44 Kelley Peterson, or even Ted Brewer's Whitby 42 are ones that I've liked. Any of those in steel out there?
Thanks again for all the feedback.
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Old 11-20-2012
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainQuiet View Post
Thanks for all the feedback.
....... where could we find info about the French boats? I always thought aluminum was too expensive. .....

Ovni-Club : Alubat sailboats Ovni yachts Owners Association fr

Ovni boats for sale - www.yachtworld.com

They ARE expensive... but have a look.
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  #13  
Old 11-20-2012
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Ouch. yes those are a bit pricey- but beautiful.
Any idea where I could learn more about the ones mentioned earlier in this post?

"Regarding smaller sailboats (- 45ft) I think aluminium is a better material. The French amateurs boat builders use a thick aluminium that dispenses internal framing and that makes it almost as easy to work with as working with steel and permits a lighter boat and faster boat."

Thanks!
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Old 11-20-2012
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainQuiet View Post
...
I'm not sure we're in the market for a newly built vessel - our budget is more aligned with 10- 20 year old boats.
I'm a novice welder and would like to find something that needs major TLC and new systems so I could put it together before heading out.
Weight and therefore slowness is something I thought might be an issue. We are shopping for something in the 40 to 45 foot range, so maybe the advice PCP gives about aluminium deserves a closer look - where could we find info about the French boats? I always thought aluminum was too expensive.
Center cockpit and aft cabin are also something that appeals to us. Cutter or Ketch both could work. The design of the Stevens 47 or the 44 Kelley Peterson, or even Ted Brewer's Whitby 42 are ones that I've liked. Any of those in steel out there?
Thanks again for all the feedback.
Regarding an aluminum French boasts you can look at the interesting boat thread, there are many information about them including seaworthiness. There is a member that posted there that has a recent OVNI 395? and another one that post recently is waiting for the delivery of a new Boreal 44.

Boréal 44, « Sailing boat of the year 2010 » in France

Alubat, chantier de bateaux en aluminium sur mesures, les sables d’olonne, vendée, constructeur de bateau | Alubat | des bateaux en aluminium à vos mesures

The place to look for a not too expensive aluminium boat is France, specially if it is one from one of the less expensive brands. Many of those had the hulls and masts made professionally and the rest home made. I guess this would be the more interesting for you. Much cheaper used, solid but in need of some work. Good time too to buy in France

As you would have some difficulty in looking in French sites I have made a quick search. There are also some steel boats even if that would not be my option. Some boats will be inevitably repetitions (sometimes the prices are different) and I looked under 200 000 euros, boats with less than 15 years old. Older or more expensive and more recent there are many. These are asking prices. The boats are not selling so I guess you can get a much better price on some if this boats.

An advise: If you can have an OVNI 43 or 435. These are great boats. Probably the Allures 44 is even better but more expensive.

Regards

Paulo

ALUBAT OVNI 435 Voiliers 12 - 14 m d'occasion année 2001
ALUBAT OVNI 385 occasion 2000 - Voiliers 12 - 14 m
ALLURES YACHTING ALLURES 44 Voiliers 12 - 14 m d'occasion année 2005
CHANTIER META LOGIQUE DE MER 40 Voiliers 10 - 12 m année 2002
CHANTIER AMATEUR ALADIN 11.75 Voiliers 10 - 12 m d'occasion année 2004
CAROFF CHATAM EXPRESS 40 Voiliers 10 - 12 m année 2005
Vente ALUBAT OVNI 385 Voiliers 10 - 12 m - 160000 €
http://www.monbateau.com/monbateau-p...ails-annonces-

http://www.annoncebateaux/detail-mon...VNI%20385%20DI

OVNI 385 - Alubat : bateau vendre sur monBateau.com

http://www.monbateau.com/monbateau-p...VNI%20385%20DI

ALUBAT OVNI 385 DI - Ano : 2002 - EYB

ALUBAT OVNI 43 - Ano : 1992 - EYB

ALUBAT OVNI 435 - Ano : 2002 - EYB

OVNI 385 DI occasion - Bateau d'occasion - ALUBAT

OVNI 435 occasion - Bateau d'occasion - ALUBAT

CHATAM 40 Extrême occasion - Voilier d'occasion - CAROFF

Last edited by PCP; 11-20-2012 at 12:35 PM.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
most are hard chine, which is OK but something you need to 'like'.. Soft chine metal boats are usually much more costly to have built.
Ted Brewer came up with a process called "Radius Chine" that was plated conventionally but the chine area was replaced with a rolled piece that removed the hard edge. I've seen a couple and you'd never know they weren't conventional round bilge design unless you knew about it.

I don't know the cost details but I can't imagine it would increase the build cost very much - most large machine shops have big plate rollers. The framing in the chine area would take a bit more work as well, to get the radius on all the frames.

I see no reason why you couldn't do the same thing in alloy.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainQuiet View Post
Ouch. yes those are a bit pricey- but beautiful.
Any idea where I could learn more about the ones mentioned earlier in this post?

"Regarding smaller sailboats (- 45ft) I think aluminium is a better material. The French amateurs boat builders use a thick aluminium that dispenses internal framing and that makes it almost as easy to work with as working with steel and permits a lighter boat and faster boat."

Thanks!
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
Ted Brewer came up with a process called "Radius Chine" that was plated conventionally but the chine area was replaced with a rolled piece that removed the hard edge. I've seen a couple and you'd never know they weren't conventional round bilge design unless you knew about it.

I don't know the cost details but I can't imagine it would increase the build cost very much - most large machine shops have big plate rollers. The framing in the chine area would take a bit more work as well, to get the radius on all the frames.

I see no reason why you couldn't do the same thing in alloy.
Yes.. agree that that will work in either medium.. more labour intensive still. Amazon and Waterline yachts on Vancouver Island made some very nice soft chine steel boats too, probably using similar techniques.

Years ago I saw in Victoria what I first believed to be a Norseman 447 (one of my favourite Perry designs).. turned out to be a 'homebuilt' in aluminum. It was a work of art and hard to tell from factory. Spent quite a bit of time discussing (and admiring) her with the owner/builder. Perry had apparently reworked the details for him, it looked to have worked out great. Have not seen it since.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

It seems incredible but there are some guys that can manage some soft chines with Origami techniques:

Origami Magic

Chines are not necessarily bad to performance and some years ago a class 40 with hard chines left many (including me) amazed...well, the boat won a lot or races.

There are aluminium boats with no chines. Allures was the first small builder to do that but for doing that:

"And for our sail yacht construction, we have implemented partnerships with a super yacht yard and a famous cabinet maker company. Through these partnerships we get access to exclusive know-how and top level industrial tools. "

Notre chantier
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Having owned a 34' Van de Stadt in steel the performance issue is probably the main drawback though yes the maintenance can get you down. Nonetheless I think that chines or no chines she is a very handsome looking boat. The VDS34 is multi chine and for mine that makes for a better look than the somewhat slab sided appearance of hard chine.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

tdw,
What were the shortcomings in your VDS34 performance? And someone mentioned before that maintenance (rust) is becoming less of a problem with more modern paints- would you say that is true, and finally - what kind of a maintenance schedule are we talking about here?
thanks
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