Pros and cons of steel sailboats - Page 203 - SailNet Community
 1723Likes
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #2021 of 5317 Old 10-31-2013
PCP
Senior Member
 
PCP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,214
Thanks: 21
Thanked 105 Times in 88 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

The funny thing about it is that Brent's 36ft seems to me to have an adequate stability with the ballast/keel/weight he has on his boat. If he wanted to have that St curve on his boat he had to put so much ballast on the boat that it would be ridiculously heavy and that would make it even slower.
bobperry likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PCP is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2022 of 5317 Old 10-31-2013
Moderator
 
Jeff_H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
Posts: 6,957
Thanks: 5
Thanked 164 Times in 133 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Still know I prefer having some of the boat in the water. Was in a moderate storm on a tri and have been in much more severe stuff in various monohulls. Behavior of the tri was pukeogenic and every one was bruised on the outsides surfaces of arms and legs whereas in a good monohull you can just weather on. My unscientific impression is on boats more dependent on form stability the ride is worse when things pipe up as well.
The problem with the motion on a Tri's is that they are typically designed so that both outer hulls can barely penetrate the surface when the boat is dead level. The idea is to reduce wetted surface by lifting the weather hull out of the water at very small heel angles. The hulls are also shaped to quickly develop buoyancy as they submerge to quickly start generating stability. What then happens in closely spaced waves is that you rock from outer hull to outer hull, and fetch up quickly against that rapidly building stability. The result can be pukeogenic and everyone bruised.
bobperry likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Curmudgeon at Large- and rhinestone in the rough, sailing my Farr 11.6 on the Chesapeake Bay
Jeff_H is offline  
post #2023 of 5317 Old 10-31-2013
grumpy old man
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,342
Thanks: 1
Thanked 105 Times in 101 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Paulo:
I agree. It's the real world. Even over here in the great Pacific Northwest. Physics works the same. Just wetter.

Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Bob's Blog ....

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Please also visit my new web site
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bobperry is offline  
post #2024 of 5317 Old 10-31-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: new england
Posts: 2,394
Thanks: 55
Thanked 50 Times in 47 Posts
Rep Power: 3
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Go for it

s/v Hippocampus
Outbound 46
outbound is offline  
post #2025 of 5317 Old 10-31-2013
Just another Moderator
 
Faster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 16,551
Thanks: 105
Thanked 316 Times in 302 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

" ..pukeogenic"... adding that to my dictionary!
skygazer likes this.

Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Faster is offline  
post #2026 of 5317 Old 10-31-2013
PCP
Senior Member
 
PCP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,214
Thanks: 21
Thanked 105 Times in 88 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Yes, there are pukeogenic boats and puke people that cannot sail in pukeogenic boats. Pukeogenic boats are strictly for no puke people. At some speed in some conditions all really fast sailboats are pukeogenic boats. Conclusion: If you really want to sail or race fast in a sailboat better not be a pukeogenic guy, otherwise you puke and will never understand why all the other guys have a big grin while you are puking
Jeff_H, Faster and Stumble like this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by PCP; 10-31-2013 at 09:42 PM.
PCP is offline  
post #2027 of 5317 Old 10-31-2013
Just another Moderator
 
Faster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 16,551
Thanks: 105
Thanked 316 Times in 302 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Clearly "Pukeogenic" has a Portuguese etymology

Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Faster is offline  
post #2028 of 5317 Old 11-01-2013
Senior Member
 
tommays's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,296
Thanks: 1
Thanked 30 Times in 30 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats


^^^ What happens when you ignore the fact that a change like changing a plastic enclosure to glass above deck does to stability even if it was a powerboat

I use to spend a LOT of time camping on Lake George with the young ones and we had walked past the Ethan Allen many times and always felt uneasy as it listed at the dock

1970 Cal 29 Sea Fever

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1981 J24 Tangent 2930
Tommays
Northport NY


If a dirty bottom slows you down what do you think it does to your boat
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
tommays is offline  
post #2029 of 5317 Old 11-01-2013
Senior Member
 
skygazer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: western Maine
Posts: 394
Thanks: 2
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by tommays View Post
Ethan Allen boating accident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

^^^ What happens when you ignore the fact that a change like changing a plastic enclosure to glass above deck does to stability even if it was a powerboat

I use to spend a LOT of time camping on Lake George with the young ones and we had walked past the Ethan Allen many times and always felt uneasy as it listed at the dock
Because I've always liked exploring lakes, I canoed on Lake George a few times, camping on islands, many years ago. I'm happy to say I sailed my canoe downwind there a few times, you could sail a long ways with the wind up or down the lake. Lots of history, I saw remains of boats from the early wars there, and thick old wavy wine bottles with round bottoms.

It's a beautiful clear lake, long and deep in many areas. It's so long that at times waves can build to a good size, and quickly. It's hard to believe they used a boat that seems more suitable for a duckpond. According to the Wiki article, the bench seats were not fastened down. A couple pages back Bob Perry mentioned that old time ships couldn't heel safely past around 20°. I'm guessing part of that was the loose internal ballast that could shift. Having a too large load of passengers, in effect loose ballast very high up, on loose benches, means that boat wasn't suitable for the squalls and wind and waves I've experienced on that lake. It wasn't rough when they sank according to the reports, just a hard turn that shifted the weight.

I know I've read somewhere about a fishing vessel that also did a lot of improvements, adding more and more weight up high, then sinking. I guess it's hard for people to realize the cumulative effect of what they do, beyond the original design of the boat.
skygazer is offline  
post #2030 of 5317 Old 11-01-2013
Senior Member
 
skygazer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: western Maine
Posts: 394
Thanks: 2
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Yes, there are pukeogenic boats and puke people that cannot sail in pukeogenic boats. Pukeogenic boats are strictly for no puke people. At some speed in some conditions all really fast sailboats are pukeogenic boats. Conclusion: If you really want to sail or race fast in a sailboat better not be a pukeogenic guy, otherwise you puke and will never understand why all the other guys have a big grin while you are puking
PCP!!

It's not just speed that causes pukeogenesis. The only time in my life I had an inkling of what people must feel when seasick was from slow motion. I was on a small steel (remember this thread is about steel boats) freighter, maybe a hundred feet long. We headed out from Portland for Yarmouth Nova Scotia, back in the late 70's. It was February, arctic cold, during that year when Boston and the northeast were buried in snow, and it was blowing hard out of the NNE.

When we hit the open water and turned for Yarmouth, the ship heeled way over onto its starboard side, and stayed that way. Then it went up up up up up up, and down...down...down...down, up up up up up up, down...down...down...down..., while staying laid over hard on the starboard side. Each time we went down you could feel your stomach and guts float up into your ribcage.

I got used to it after a bit, but for the first time I could see how people get very seasick.
aeventyr60 likes this.
skygazer is offline  
Closed Thread

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
C & C 24 pros and cons chuckg Boat Review and Purchase Forum 13 05-20-2015 12:05 AM
Hunter 36 Pros and Cons? turfguy Hunter 15 08-25-2014 05:08 PM
Pros and Cons of Catalina 350?? turfguy C350 6 10-16-2009 05:17 PM
Watermakers—Pros and Cons Tom Wood Cruising Articles 0 06-11-2002 08:00 PM
Steel Hulls—Pros and Cons Sue & Larry Buying a Boat Articles 0 09-12-2001 08:00 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome