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  #2021  
Old 10-31-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

The funny thing about it is that Brent's 36ft seems to me to have an adequate stability with the ballast/keel/weight he has on his boat. If he wanted to have that St curve on his boat he had to put so much ballast on the boat that it would be ridiculously heavy and that would make it even slower.
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  #2022  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Still know I prefer having some of the boat in the water. Was in a moderate storm on a tri and have been in much more severe stuff in various monohulls. Behavior of the tri was pukeogenic and every one was bruised on the outsides surfaces of arms and legs whereas in a good monohull you can just weather on. My unscientific impression is on boats more dependent on form stability the ride is worse when things pipe up as well.
The problem with the motion on a Tri's is that they are typically designed so that both outer hulls can barely penetrate the surface when the boat is dead level. The idea is to reduce wetted surface by lifting the weather hull out of the water at very small heel angles. The hulls are also shaped to quickly develop buoyancy as they submerge to quickly start generating stability. What then happens in closely spaced waves is that you rock from outer hull to outer hull, and fetch up quickly against that rapidly building stability. The result can be pukeogenic and everyone bruised.
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  #2023  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Paulo:
I agree. It's the real world. Even over here in the great Pacific Northwest. Physics works the same. Just wetter.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Go for it
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  #2025  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

" ..pukeogenic"... adding that to my dictionary!
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Yes, there are pukeogenic boats and puke people that cannot sail in pukeogenic boats. Pukeogenic boats are strictly for no puke people. At some speed in some conditions all really fast sailboats are pukeogenic boats. Conclusion: If you really want to sail or race fast in a sailboat better not be a pukeogenic guy, otherwise you puke and will never understand why all the other guys have a big grin while you are puking
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Clearly "Pukeogenic" has a Portuguese etymology
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  #2028  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats


^^^ What happens when you ignore the fact that a change like changing a plastic enclosure to glass above deck does to stability even if it was a powerboat

I use to spend a LOT of time camping on Lake George with the young ones and we had walked past the Ethan Allen many times and always felt uneasy as it listed at the dock
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  #2029  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by tommays View Post
Ethan Allen boating accident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

^^^ What happens when you ignore the fact that a change like changing a plastic enclosure to glass above deck does to stability even if it was a powerboat

I use to spend a LOT of time camping on Lake George with the young ones and we had walked past the Ethan Allen many times and always felt uneasy as it listed at the dock
Because I've always liked exploring lakes, I canoed on Lake George a few times, camping on islands, many years ago. I'm happy to say I sailed my canoe downwind there a few times, you could sail a long ways with the wind up or down the lake. Lots of history, I saw remains of boats from the early wars there, and thick old wavy wine bottles with round bottoms.

It's a beautiful clear lake, long and deep in many areas. It's so long that at times waves can build to a good size, and quickly. It's hard to believe they used a boat that seems more suitable for a duckpond. According to the Wiki article, the bench seats were not fastened down. A couple pages back Bob Perry mentioned that old time ships couldn't heel safely past around 20°. I'm guessing part of that was the loose internal ballast that could shift. Having a too large load of passengers, in effect loose ballast very high up, on loose benches, means that boat wasn't suitable for the squalls and wind and waves I've experienced on that lake. It wasn't rough when they sank according to the reports, just a hard turn that shifted the weight.

I know I've read somewhere about a fishing vessel that also did a lot of improvements, adding more and more weight up high, then sinking. I guess it's hard for people to realize the cumulative effect of what they do, beyond the original design of the boat.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Yes, there are pukeogenic boats and puke people that cannot sail in pukeogenic boats. Pukeogenic boats are strictly for no puke people. At some speed in some conditions all really fast sailboats are pukeogenic boats. Conclusion: If you really want to sail or race fast in a sailboat better not be a pukeogenic guy, otherwise you puke and will never understand why all the other guys have a big grin while you are puking
PCP!!

It's not just speed that causes pukeogenesis. The only time in my life I had an inkling of what people must feel when seasick was from slow motion. I was on a small steel (remember this thread is about steel boats) freighter, maybe a hundred feet long. We headed out from Portland for Yarmouth Nova Scotia, back in the late 70's. It was February, arctic cold, during that year when Boston and the northeast were buried in snow, and it was blowing hard out of the NNE.

When we hit the open water and turned for Yarmouth, the ship heeled way over onto its starboard side, and stayed that way. Then it went up up up up up up, and down...down...down...down, up up up up up up, down...down...down...down..., while staying laid over hard on the starboard side. Each time we went down you could feel your stomach and guts float up into your ribcage.

I got used to it after a bit, but for the first time I could see how people get very seasick.
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