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  #2161  
Old 11-19-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by darksails View Post
Woild a steel boat be good for a beginner??
Absolutely! It is far more forgiving of mistakes.
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  #2162  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
I have seen your drawings Brent. I'd ask you to post some more but I don't think I want to look at them. They are crude at best and display very effectively your lack of design talent. But if you have some drawings you are proud of please, by all means post them.

I saw one of your boats posted here and I really liked it. But I give all credit to the builder, the client and not you. They managed a nice boat depsite your lack of design help. Interestingly it was missing a lot of the BS "special touches".

" Shafhauer blocks?" I have never heard of those. Could you direct me to a web site so I can see some. You didn't mean Garhauer did you?

"back when I was extremely naive " Classic BS.
Yes I meant Garhaur. Sorry for the typo. Great blocks, far better than any other commercially made blocks, but certainly no advantage over building your own, and far more costly.
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  #2163  
Old 11-19-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Earlier Brent talked about the vurtues of pilothouses. I seriously thought about a pilothouse but went with a hard dodger boat for several reasons.
1. Find if you are on deck to are more likely to pay attention to things like the
seastate
the horizon
the wind
the sounds of your boat
the set of your sails
2.found I'm more likely to watch my sails and adjust if I'm on deck.
3.With the AP remote around my neck but under the dodger I'm comfy and out of the weather but still fully dressed/harnessed to make any adjustments or attend to any urgencies. Whereas in a nice warm pilothouse I have to get fully dressed and rigged up before going out to deal with whatever.
Seems unusual Brent would be a pilothouse fan as it takes you out of the joy of the environs. Kind of like going through a forest on a motorbike smelling and seeing everything versus traveling in a motorhome looking through a window.
Wonder what others think. Guess the full enclosures you see are about the same thing and folks seem to like those. Maybe it's a PNW thing.
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  #2164  
Old 11-19-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Brent:
you are being silly again. The boat has had a bow roller from day one. It's all there on the drawings. I do produce drawings. It's part of our ultra expensive cast 316 s.s.s stem fitting. Pretty much a clone of the system Hinckley has used for years, effective and attractive. It's been there for anyone to see who has followed the thread. We are going to 3D print it and cast it from the 3D part. That's new and exciting for me.






I understand if you can't produce a drawing you probably can't read one either but these renderings should be plain even to you.

I think Brent has run off. He's trying to find Schafhauer blocks. He did check them out. They must exist.

I think he is confused with Professor Schaffhausen from the movie DIRTY ROTTEN SCOUNDRELS, one of my favs.

I'm sure you are amazed at the beauty of this design Brent but don't tell me. Flattery will get you nowhere.
That looks much better. Can't see the slope of the front too well in the picture, but if you give the forward edge of the roller frame a good forward slope ,it stops the rode from jumping out when side loaded.
Yes, your drawings are the best in the business by a wide margin, but my clients prefer designs based on hands on experience, not theoretical speculation. They believe it is the thought and experience which decides on how good a boat you end up with, not the artsyness of the drawings, especially hands on experience on how steel goes together . That can drastically reduce the difficulty of building a steel boat. No one has had any problem building good boats from my drawings .
Next time I go offshore I am going to experiment with a short bowsprit thru one of my double bow rollers , for light airs . Looks easy to do, and the roller is already there.
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  #2165  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Great to see those wide side decks.
The walk thru transom has its pros and cons. Great access but eliminates the chance of a windvane on the stern. I once sailed a very unbalanced 36 footer across the Pacific with a QME style vane. Wandered a lot , but got me there. I hear they work really well on a Columbia 36 with a balanced rudder. While this boat is a bit big for such a rig , if it is very well balanced it could work, if the vane is big enough. It could be offset to one side of the transom .
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  #2166  
Old 11-19-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Absolutely! It is far more forgiving of mistakes.
Yes I agree. So forgiving that he will never learn how to sail properly

Regards

paulo
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  #2167  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Earlier Brent talked about the vurtues of pilothouses. I seriously thought about a pilothouse but went with a hard dodger boat for several reasons.
1. Find if you are on deck to are more likely to pay attention to things like the
seastate
the horizon
the wind
the sounds of your boat
the set of your sails
2.found I'm more likely to watch my sails and adjust if I'm on deck.
3.With the AP remote around my neck but under the dodger I'm comfy and out of the weather but still fully dressed/harnessed to make any adjustments or attend to any urgencies. Whereas in a nice warm pilothouse I have to get fully dressed and rigged up before going out to deal with whatever.
Seems unusual Brent would be a pilothouse fan as it takes you out of the joy of the environs. Kind of like going through a forest on a motorbike smelling and seeing everything versus traveling in a motorhome looking through a window.
Wonder what others think. Guess the full enclosures you see are about the same thing and folks seem to like those. Maybe it's a PNW thing.
Minus temperatures forecast here in the next couple of days, not the kind of wind I want to feel. Feeling icy doesn't bring a lot of joy. Hypothermia in an open cockpit clouds ones judgement, as does handling wet charts in an exposed cockpit. I prefer my dry chart drawer , in front of my inside steering seat. When I am in my warm wheelhouse, I can get on deck and handle any urgencies quickly, and get back below quickly enough to not get very wet , certainly not long enough to justify putting on a lot of extra clothes. With the wood stove roaring I dry off any rain drops I've accumulated, and recover any lost body heat quickly .
One can drive for hours in bad weather in a car, and feel only moderately tired, whereas sailing in an open cockpit in rough weather for a relatively short time can leave one feeling exhausted , with ones judgement severely clouded. There is no reason sailing should not be as comfortable as driving.
Try selling a pickup truck which can only be steered from the open box. That is equivalent logic to a sail boat which can only be steered from an open cockpit, or huddled behind a dodger in a following wind. With my wheelhouse, I still have the option of steering from the cockpit , which I often do, in fine weather.. I just like to have the inside option as well.
Being able to raise the floor in a wheelhouse lets you have a lot more floor space aft , wasting a lot less space on cockpit.
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  #2168  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Yes I agree. So forgiving that he will never learn how to sail properly

Regards

paulo
Not having the same level of worry means he will sail a lot more , gathering experience far more quickly. He will be much more impulsive in dropping the lines and heading out, any time the urge hits him which it will do far more often, without a lot of worry about making a mistake or hitting something. Lack of such a boat is why so many rarely leave the marina. Its an underestimated factor in owning a boat.
"Rolleyes" is an admission you have no valid points to make, conceding the argument.
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Last edited by Brent Swain; 11-19-2013 at 04:18 PM.
  #2169  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

For learning you do not want a forgiving boat. You want a boat that will smack you upside the head and say, "No, stupid, not like that." You want a boat that will quickly respond to your efforts and let you know when you are doing it wrong and when you are doing it right.. I suggest a Laser and be prepared to get wet. Maybe start in a more sedate dinghy than a Laser and work your way up to a Laser. But you will quickly learn the rudiments when swimming is the option. For years this is how we did it. You started in a dinghy and you worked your way up. Is that crazy? It worked very well for me. I have sailed so many racing dinghies I can't recall them all and they made me a more than competant sailor.

I am amazed at the sailors today who think they are experts when they would be brought to their knees in a good, fast dinghy. A good sailor can sail anything. It just takes time.

Re:
the 40-8 work boat
Look at that beautiful powder horn sheer. Some one thought about that. Someone had an eye. Someone designed that. Someone controlled that line. Sure it's a barge but it is a beautiful barge I find the whole craft very nicely designed. There is nothing that says "utilitarian" has to mean ugly. Ugly is just an artifact of lack of design skills.
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  #2170  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Bruce Cope, of Cope aluminium boats in Parksville BC, said Oregon, Washington, BC and Alaska are the world capitals of small aluminium work boat development.
I believe him!
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