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  #2171  
Old 11-19-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Good designers love to display their work. Yves-Mare posts a lot of good images of his design work. I'm very proud (probably too proud) of my own design work. How come BS never posts any of his design work?



What we are doing here is just mucking around with cockpit ergonomics, looking to see how the wheel diameter will work and where you have to stand to do what. Basically we are just having fun and designing specifically to our clinet's 5'9" height. You can do this type of in depth design work whe you have a good design budget. We have in this project a generous and appreciative client. He is having a lot of fun wth this, as I am.

Yes, there are other ways to get a boat, obviously.
This is my way.
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  #2172  
Old 11-19-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I think the work boat looks fine.

I learned to sail on small dinghies. I would agree with Bob and Jeff who say that is the fastest way to learn. I learned a lot on them. (My last time on a dinghy was last summer when I was crewing for my daughter on a FJ during a WWU college alumni race... She said I move kind of slow. She is right.)

I would say, that in my later years, I have learned different things on larger boats. In particular, I have learned a lot about sail trim, since the larger boats tend to give you more control of your rig/sails, and time to wander around a bit, scratching your head, and seeing what effect your adjustments are having.

Also, I would say that with a larger boat, and the challenging waters in the PNW, I have learned quite a bit about seamanship, that I wouldn't learn on a small lake.
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Last edited by djodenda; 11-19-2013 at 04:31 PM. Reason: grammar
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  #2173  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

In Offenbach's TALES OF HOFFMAN doesn't the puppet maker fall in love with the puppet he makes?
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I'm 5'9" too, Bob.. Real pain to furl the main. It's up pretty high, but I cope.

Looks like a Leisure Furl boom, though.. that will correct that problem.

My dad was a big fan of them. I asked him about in-mast furling.. He said:

"Where would you rather have a problem: 5 feet off the deck or 40?"
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

You can learn a lot about sail trim on a wind surfer. But I agree with you Denda. There are a whole world of lessons that you can only learn on a ballasted boat. I prefer a ballasted boat that sail well and responds to my efforts.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Denda:
Your pappy was a smart man. I prefer my problems at chest height. That's why I have never gone for in mast furling. I've sailed with it a bunch of times and I have never warmed up to it.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I learned to sail in a succesion of dingys.Not being a particularly strong swimmer or enjoying it all that much I learned where the 'edge' is.I won a fair amount of races to.Im glad I learned that way and also when I learned.We didnt have GPS or loran.The most sophistacated equipment we had was the depth sounder, one of those old ones with the round dial and the little red flasher.I still like sailing that way. Im not interested in to many gadgets. I like to feel the boat.I dont need a electronic device to tell me where the wind is coming from or how strong it is blowing.I like tell tales on the headsails and a bit of yarn on the shrouds.It works for me.GPS is nice though;-).
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Denda:
Your pappy was a smart man. I prefer my problems at chest height. That's why I have never gone for in mast furling. I've sailed with it a bunch of times and I have never warmed up to it.
Ditto. A friends Hunter got a fold in the main about 6' down from the top. Two of us had to winch him up with an assortment of paint sticks and so forth to get it unjammed. It wasn't going in or out or up or down until we got it done.

Luckily, we were at the dock. I'd hate to think what would have happened if we had been out and needed to reef it (roll it in).

I'll take lazyjacks and slab reefing thank you very much. Cheaper, simpler, never jams and you get a better sail.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Brent:
"Yes, your drawings are the best in the business by a wide margin,"
It's very nice of you to say that. I appreciate it. But there is always someone better. And I'm gunning for them. I'll never get there but it does keep the fire in my belly going. One day I'll be really good at this.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by casioqv View Post
There's nothing wrong with Brent's boats- they look and act the part for which they're designed: frugal high latitude self sufficient cruising. If I were doing that, they're exactly the boat I'd want.

If you honestly think Brent's boats don't suit the needs of his customer base, or that he's just a con artist you're way out of touch. I've read many of his customers blogs and they do some incredible adventures and the boats function flawlessly. You guys are all just jerking each other around because you don't get along at a personal level, but the attacks on each others designs make you all look unreasonable.
There's a very important distinction that you're missing casio. Brent insists that his designs are the superior designs, the only designs that "make any sense". Everything else is expensive crap that is part of some "conspiracy" to rip off the good people of the world. Further, and worse, he berates other designers and their clients - calling them fools and suckers for not seeing the world his way.

Bob doesn't do that.

So, though he'd love people to think it, Brent is ABSOLUTELY NOT "picked on" here or anywhere else. He's merely responded to.

If he could be satisfied with his niche and not feel the need to condemn the other 99.999999999999% of the sailing world - there would be absolutely no problems with Brent Swain. The poor dude just can't seem to do that.

Here's a great example casio (from just a couple of posts ago):

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Yes, your drawings are the best in the business by a wide margin, but my clients prefer designs based on hands on experience, not theoretical speculation. They believe it is the thought and experience which decides on how good a boat you end up with, not the artsyness of the drawings...
Now keep in mind that Brent is addressing this to a dude that has several decades of experience sailing and designing boats - boats that have been very widely praised by people that sail them all around the world.

Would you like to defend these insults now or later?
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 11-19-2013 at 06:06 PM.
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