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  #2301  
Old 11-26-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Got it Brent.

Did you mean "Spray foam". You wrote "spay foam". I take it that was a typo.

My buddy has foam in his fish tanks I presume so he may not have the luxury of keeping the water out of the foam. I'll chat with him. He says removing the old foam is the job from hell.
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  #2302  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Picking up wet firewood from the beach is more fun than you might think.
Or not. Wet firewood?

I live on the beach. The beach is covered in wood. It gets wet. Really wet.
BS would need a shed built on the back of his boat for his firewood. This I know. This is where I live. Picking up wood off the beach for the eveneing's fire is a myth. Pure BS.

I have two nice Jotul Norwegian fireplaces, one in the living room and one in the master bedroom. I do not burn beach wood in them. Too much salt. Too much corrosion. I have one fireplace going now. It is nice.

.
Chain saw a foot off the end of a log, and inside it is as dry as summertime. A friend in Scotty bay used a heater made from an old propane bottle , burning nothing but beach wood. It lasted 13 years . The mild steel baffle in my last stove lasted decades, burning nothing but beach wood. The guys selling the firewood perpetrate the myth that beach wood will corrode out your stove, then sell you a cord of their beach wood. Don't believe them.
I build my stoves out of scrap stainless type 316 , which shows no sign of corrosion in decades. My last stove had a bit of 400 series stainless, which eventually corroded out, after 29 years!
Piling wood behind the stove to dry it out, before putting it in the stove, works well. Wet wood in an already roaring stove burns ok, but creosotes up the pipe sooner.
Fir bark burns well, and the water drains out of it over a few days. Store it in a sail bag. Many of my friends have been using nothing but beach wood, for decades in many cases.
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  #2303  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Seems you are just an all round hater Brent.

Me? I'd like to sit down and chat with anyone who loves boats. I'm a boat lover. Workboats, yachts, powerboats, dinghies, I just like boats. I try hard not to be judgemental towards the owners. I work at taking each person for who they are and not what they sail. You seem to have distilled judgmentalism down to a way of life. You make sweeping generalizations on the character of peolpe by the boats they sail, by what material their boats are made of, by who built the boat, by who designed their boat. Amazing. Meaning, if it's not a BS boat (I love it) then the boat is no good and the owners are no good. They are fools. You have said it time and again. The myopic world of BS. (I know you are etymogically challenged Brent but you can Google it.)

That is what I call ignorance. You do it superbly, over and over.
I have nothing against your boats.
I think little of you.
Me too. Love boat people, especially practical boat people , who build their own gear, enjoy doing it, and who don't swallow hook line and sinker whatever the industry is selling, but openly question it, before buying. I especially like those who ask the question "Can I build it better?" I have always advocated learning everything your current boat has to teach you, whatever it is, before changing boats.
I remember in my youth, seeing a boat going downwind in a fine fair sailing breeze, motoring, with the sails down and the sail covers on. It used to bother me ,someone wasting such a fine breeze.
Now I see him doing exactly what he should be doing, using HIS boat exactly the way He feels like using her, at the moment , regardless of how anyone else thinks he should be using her .
I strongly believe in what I make, and reject any suggestion that anyone should seek out a builder or designer who doesn't particularly believe in what he is doing.
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Old 11-26-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

We have burned beach wood for years up here and we have heard the corrosion stories but we have never seen them. But when I built the new house with the fancy stoves I thought I should be conservative and it's sooooo much easier to buy a couple chords of wood. But I have neighbors who burn nothing but beach wood.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

My problem with the fireplaces now is that I have hot water heated foors. These retain the heat for about three days. So if I keep my thermostats downstairs on 68 degs starting a fire in the fireplace bumps the temp up to at least 7o degrees in the house and that's too much for me. Fires now are strictly for ambience. Still I make one everynight anyway. I like ambience. Between heating the floors and heating the swimming pool I am on a first name basis with my propane delivery guy.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Bob,
With radiant heat in your floors, you need some roof mounted, solar glycol-water heaters that are piped into perhaps a 1500- 2500 gal storage tank with a heat exchanger to preheat the water going into your floors A water coil in your wood stove could provide further assistance. Even if that combo did not fully heat the water, it would reduce run times on your boiler by preheating the water going in. You would hardly see your propane guy after that.

I used to burn beach wood when I was camping. The trick is basically what Brent suggested, banking the damp logs so that they absorb heat from the fire and dry out before you burn the stuff. Splitting the logs help some and you need to rotate the logs periodically so all sides dry. By experimentation it seemed that it took roughly twice as many logs drying as you had in the fire to make sure that there were enough to burn continuously. The drying logs absorbed heat and would stay warm for a while after the fire burned down, and were useful to prewarm your sleeping bag before climbing in.

BTW, how is your aluminum origami Peapod coming?

Jeff
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  #2307  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Ah, yes, more BS/inaccuracies/whoppers.

Here, let me help you out:

http://des.nh.gov/organization/commi...nts/ard-36.pdf



Or this...

Smoke from wood fireplaces, stoves raises new health concerns ? Environmental Health News



I mean, believe what you want, Brent - but you can't just keep making stuff up and presenting it as fact. That's what we call BS, or environmental denial, or as Buddy tells the fake Santa...



As for where my electricity comes from...I pay about $4/month for what we use. And, building on what you try to claim about how the steel in your boat(s) is only a minuscule part of the incredibly environmentally-destructive process of mining, processing, treating, shipping, welding, etc. steel (you know, messing with stuff that would otherwise remain buried) - whatever way that electricity gets to my little 1500 watt heater will ALWAYS be cleaner than ANY of your methods. I care about the environment. I just wish you would too.



I'm semi-retired. I have a very nice balance of work and fun. I love my work and have fun doing it, but I'm doing less of it because I love having more and more fun elsewhere. So, I have absolutely no complaints.

Have fun with your deadly firewood.



Well, two things...first, I have a generator so I can plug in anything I want. I think you're mixing up my very well-equipped boat with your obviously very ill-equipped boat.

But at the end of the day, I have absolutely no desire to be cold and miserable in any circumstance. That's why I live in and sail to warm places.

But, hey, if cold misery makes you as happy as you seem to be, stay right where you are.
When I sail past Vancouver I see a huge cloud of brown vehicle smoke. We laugh at the Romans for using lead salts to sweeten their wine and storing it in lead containers, or running their water thru lead pipes. In the future I can see people laughing at us for believing we can live in a huge cloud of vehicle emissions with out any harmful effects on our health. They are just beginning to question building schools alongside 4 lane highways. Slow learners?
When I went to Vancouver, I started to cough in the first ten miles and didn't stop coughing until I had been out of town for a week ( in my boat with my wood stove going)
I used to have an oil heater, which burned super clean, with a blue flame. It made me cough. I got rid of it and switched to wood, and the cough went away in a week .
$4a month for your electric heat? Does that include your moorage? Can you buy your electric heat without paying moorage, probably more than my total cost of living, and cruising anywhere I want to, any time? Does having to pay moorage to get your electric heat, mean being given a long list of rules as to what you may or may not do in your own floating home? Does that involve being surrounded by that floating soap opera called "Marina?"
Not having all those expenses enabled me to semi retire in my mid 20's. How long did it take you? At what age? Do you really believe I wish I had spent all that time working instead of cruising?
Do you really think I will lay on my death bed wishing I had worked more and played less?
We have been living around wood fires for tens of thousands of years. Our bodies have adapted. How long have we lived around oil stoves? How does driving thru smog, the exhausts of many cars in front of us, to earn the money to buy oil, affect our health? Sure affects mine , in a bad way. Having never owned a car I don't put out much of that poison. General motors would call me downright "EVIL. You would believe anything they tell you. I would take that as a compliment . As one USanian politico said "What is right for general motors is right for America."
Once my boat has been built ,my environmental foot print drops to a tiny fraction of what it would be, living the Consumer , squanderism lifestyle , a lifestyle which would take three more planets to sustain indefinitely . Ditto the people I build for, who live aboard, and get rid of their cars. The reduction in our lifetime environmental foot print is far greater than any brief damage from building our boats ( which enable us to live such a low impact lifestyle)
If you live on the East Coast of the US, your power is coming from coal fired generators, coal obtained by blowing the tops off mountains. How self delusional would one have to be to believe that the electric cord it comes out of is the original ,only source of such power.
Reminds me about the story of a kid in silicone valley who walked into work and announced "Wow I just found out where milk comes from. It comes from cows!"
Sounds like Steve's( Smacks ) way of urban thinking. So tell us where meat comes from Steve.
Cows? No way !It comes from Styrofoam trays in super markets? Cows have nothing to do with it?
How about eggs? The also come from Styrofoam containers in super markets? Chickens have nothing to do with it?
Ya, sure Steve!

Met my great grandfather when he was 100. Lived to 103. His dad lived to 104 .Never saw a doctor in that time. They used exclusively wood heat, in minus 40 degree winters. Sure didn't kill them off early.
I have cruised all the South Pacific Islands which interested me. I could be there right now, if I wanted to, but have no interest. Friends cruising the West Indies, said they were harassed daily by the US coast guard. Some have been given orders while the US Cost Guard held a cocked and loaded machine gun at the head of their 8 year old daughter. That doesn't happen here. In over40 years of cruising the BC coast I have been asked only once to show a Mountie my lifejacket. That was the only time I have been stopped by big brother here. When a Mountie suggested a wife beater try a ballistic solution on his victim, I was able to get him fired, and to kiss his pension goodby. Good luck with that issue in a foreign country.
A friend with one of my 36 footers was in Houston when hurricane Ike hit. Luckily his boat was in a marina which survived, but his pick up truck and other possessions were under 6 feet of water. Part of the cost of living in tropical places. So much easier to throw another log on the fire, than deal with that.
Here, I don't need a visa, don't need a passport, they cant kick me out, I don't have a deadline as to when I must leave by ,can come and go anytime, with no ones permission, can work anytime the urge hits me, can hunt, have no problem finding what I need to do projects , have full health care for free, no lack of medical services, the government pays me for existing, I get my mail reliably, the list goes on.
I can sail a few miles and be in wilderness, far from anyone, not anchored in some one's back yard, such as is the case in most tropical places.
No coral to eat my anchors or anchor rodes, or fill tiny anchorages into uselessness, no malaria, no denghe fever, no amoebas. Paradise is a place called home.
In the South Pacific ,it seems Californians, and east coast Usanians, are horrified at the thought of going home. People from BC and Washington are a bit keen to get home, Alaskans cant wait to get home. That says a lot about home!
I always come home, homesick. The West Indies is the last place on the planet I want to be. It's all yours, Steve, yours and millions of others .
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Last edited by Brent Swain; 11-26-2013 at 05:44 PM.
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  #2308  
Old 11-26-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Jeff:
Do you think we get enough sun up here to really help with roof mounted heaters?

But we do heat the pool in the summer also. We like it at 85 degs. Cozy and I don't want my darling granddauighter to get chilled when she swims. She loves the pool.

We need to discuss this.

( which enable us to live such a low impact lifestyle)"
Yeah, but look how cranky and judgemental it makes you. Maybe the impact is psychological.

I'll get your Christmas gift in UPS this week. I'll include instructions.

Got to go now and make lamb stew on my big propane Wolfe range.
I expect a huge gift from my propane supplier at Christmas. Right.
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Last edited by bobperry; 11-26-2013 at 05:26 PM.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Brent-testicular cancer was the leading cause of cancer death in London chimney sweeps. Coal and wood release carcinogens upon combustion. Wood fired energy plants are under increasing regulatory restrictions in my area.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Bob- Live in New England but still get my electricity from panels on the roof and hot water from two surprisingly small panels. The water in those panels gives us domestic hot water and pre heats the forced hot water heating system. Get a check from the power companies every 3m. Did it when there were all sorts of tax incentives but even now as prices have come down and efficiency up the pay back is a very short time.
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