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  #2311  
Old 11-26-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
When I sail past Vancouver I see a huge cloud of brown vehicle smoke. We laugh at the Romans for using lead salts to sweeten their wine and storing it in lead containers, or running their water thru lead pipes. In the future I can see people laughing at us for believing we can live in a huge cloud of vehicle emissions with out any harmful effects on our health. They are just beginning to question building schools alongside 4 lane highways. Slow learners?
When I went to Vancouver, I started to cough in the first ten miles and didn't stop coughing until I had been out of town for a week ( in my boat with my wood stove going)
I used to have an oil heater, which burned super clean, with a blue flame. It made me cough. I got rid of it and switched to wood, and the cough went away in a week .
We have been living around wood fires for tens of thousands of years. Our bodies have adapted. How long have we lived around oil stoves? How does driving thru smog, the exhausts of many cars in front of us, to earn the money to buy oil, affect our health? Sure affects mine , in a bad way. Having never owned a car I don't put out much of that poison. General motors would call me downright "EVIL. You would believe anything they tell you. I would take that as a compliment . As one USanian politico said "What is right for general motors is right for America."
Once my boat has been built ,my environmental foot print drops to a tiny fraction of what it would be, living the Consumer , squanderism lifestyle , a lifestyle which would take three more planets to sustain indefinitely . Ditto the people I build for, who live aboard, and get rid of their cars. The reduction in our lifetime environmental foot print is far greater than any damage from building our boats ( which enable us to live such a low impact lifestyle)
If you live on the East Coast of the US, your power is coming from coal fired generators, coal obtained by blowing the tops off mountains. How self delusional would one have to be to believe that the electric cord it come out of is the original ,only source of such power.
Reminds me about the story of a kid in silicone valley who walked into work and announced "Wow I just found out where milk comes from. It comes from cows!"

Met my great grandfather when he was 100. Lived to 103. His dad lived to 104 .Never saw a doctor in that time. They used exclusively wood heat, in minus 40 degree winters. Sure didn't kill them off early.
I have cruised all the South Pacific Island which interested me. I could be there right now, if I wanted to, but have no interest. Friends cruising the West Indies said they were harassed daily by the US coast guard. Some have been given orders while the US Cost Guard held a cocked and loaded machine gun at the head of their 8 year old daughter. That doesn't happen here. In over40 years of cruising the BC coast I have ben asked only once to show a Mountie my lifejacket. That was the only time I have ben stopped by big brother. When a Mountie suggested a wife beater try a ballistic solution on his victim, I was able to get him fired and to kiss his pension goodby. Good luck with that issue in a foreign country.
A friend with one of my 36 footers was in Houston when hurricane Ike hit. Luckily his boat was in a marina which survived, but his pick up truck and other possessions were under 6 feet of water. Part of the cost of living in tropical places. So much easier to throw another log on the fire than deal with that.
Here I don't need a visa, don't need a passport, they cant kick me out, I don't have a deadline as to when I must leave by , can work anytime the urge hits me, can hunt, have no problem finding what I need to do projects , have full health care for free, no lack of medical services, the government pays me for existing, get my mail reliably, the list goes on.
I can sail a few miles and be in wilderness, far from anyone, not anchored in some ones back yard, such as is the case in most tropical places.
No coral to eat my anchors or anchor rodes, or fill tiny anchorages into uselessness, no malaria, no denghe fever, no amoebas. Paradise is a place called home.
In the South Pacific ,it seems Californians, and east coast Usanians, are horrified at the thought of going home. People from BC and Washington are a bit keen to get home, Alaskans cant wait to get home. That says a lot about home!
I always come home, homesick. The West Indies is the last place on the planet I want to be. It's all yours, Steve, yours and millions of others .
Despite the long-winded diatribe - the problem is, when it comes to environmentalism, you just don't practice what you preach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Once my boat has been built ,my environmental foot print drops to a tiny fraction of what it would be, living the Consumer , squanderism lifestyle , a lifestyle which would take three more planets to sustain indefinitely . Ditto the people I build for, who live aboard, and get rid of their cars. The reduction in our lifetime environmental foot print is far greater than any damage from building our boats ( which enable us to live such a low impact lifestyle)
See, it's okay for you to destroy the planet with your steel - because it "eventually" makes your "footprint smaller". But you're still being very destructive.

If you want to take the holy-roller environmentalist, anti-consumerism stance - you need to be all about 100% recycling. That is, recycle the many, many wood or plastic boats that are already out there. Then use all your techniques and innovative gear ideas to keep that boat completely off the grid - always. If you did this, I'd give you huge kudos. That would be admirable - remarkable even.

But you don't do this. You're just another advocate of unnecessary consumerism: "What's right for Baosteel, Angang Steel Company, Wuhan Iron and Steel, Anshan, Tangshan, Shagang Group and Hebei Iron and Steel - is right for the environment."

By encouraging people to buy your DVDs, your plans, tons of steel, tons of lead, gallons of epoxy, a combustion engine, a polluting woodstove, a barnful of tools, blow off manganese fumes for years, etc. - you're simply promoting very destructive consumerism.

You really shouldn't do that...regardless of what the other "bad guys" are doing.
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  #2312  
Old 11-26-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
The best, most reliable bedding compound ever invented is welding. It never needs rebedding.
That's a good argument for living in a shipping container instead of a house.
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  #2313  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
Bob,
With radiant heat in your floors, you need some roof mounted, solar glycol-water heaters that are piped into perhaps a 1500- 2500 gal storage tank with a heat exchanger to preheat the water going into your floors A water coil in your wood stove could provide further assistance. Even if that combo did not fully heat the water, it would reduce run times on your boiler by preheating the water going in. You would hardly see your propane guy after that.

I used to burn beach wood when I was camping. The trick is basically what Brent suggested, banking the damp logs so that they absorb heat from the fire and dry out before you burn the stuff. Splitting the logs help some and you need to rotate the logs periodically so all sides dry. By experimentation it seemed that it took roughly twice as many logs drying as you had in the fire to make sure that there were enough to burn continuously. The drying logs absorbed heat and would stay warm for a while after the fire burned down, and were useful to prewarm your sleeping bag before climbing in.

BTW, how is your aluminum origami Peapod coming?

Jeff
My brother and his neighbours were discussing solar heaters ,at horrendous prices, for their swimming pool in their condos. I asked "Why so pricy?" He said "It's all the fittings on the ends, where the pipes go back and forth."
I said "You don't need any fittings. Black poly pipe comes in a roll. Just lay it out in a spiral on top of the building, till it fills the roof." They did that, for a tiny fraction the cost of a commercially made solar heater, and for many years the propane heater never came on. One hot weekend, they forgot to turn the pump off, and when they got back the pool was too hot to put your toe in. Put a piece of clear plastic over it for greenhouse effect and it gets even more efficient. If you have a south facing roof , you can pipe it from there into a heat storage tank, and you may have plenty of heat for overnight.
At any rate, it doesn't cost much to try it. Black poly pipe is cheap.
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  #2314  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Newman View Post
That's a good argument for living in a shipping container instead of a house.
Actually, I think you're onto something Tim! THIS IS BRILLIANT!

BRENT, if you could convert a shipping container into a steel sailboat - you'd be a hero - for generations. It's everything you could possibly want in a boat...it's steel, you can weld all kinds of crazy crap to it, you don't have to worry about hitting shipping containers (because it IS a shipping container) - AND IT'S 100% RECYCLING!!!

Get on those drawings dude. Let's see you finally make the world a better place with your origami.

If Bob can do it for a canoe, surely you can do it for a shipping container.

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Last edited by smackdaddy; 11-26-2013 at 06:10 PM.
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  #2315  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Got it Brent.

Did you mean "Spray foam". You wrote "spay foam". I take it that was a typo.

My buddy has foam in his fish tanks I presume so he may not have the luxury of keeping the water out of the foam. I'll chat with him. He says removing the old foam is the job from hell.
If the foam goes into the bilge , removing it from the bilge , or under the fish tanks, to let it drain, will let the rest dry out.

Yes, spay foam was typo. That describes spermicidal gell.
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  #2316  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Despite the long-winded diatribe - the problem is, when it comes to environmentalism, you just don't practice what you preach.



See, it's okay for you to destroy the planet with your steel - because it "eventually" makes your "footprint smaller". But you're still being very destructive.

If you want to take the holy-roller environmentalist, anti-consumerism stance - you need to be all about 100% recycling. That is, recycle the many, many wood or plastic boats that are already out there. Then use all your techniques and innovative gear ideas to keep that boat completely off the grid - always. If you did this, I'd give you huge kudos. That would be admirable - remarkable even.

But you don't do this. You're just another advocate of unnecessary consumerism: "What's right for Baosteel, Angang Steel Company, Wuhan Iron and Steel, Anshan, Tangshan, Shagang Group and Hebei Iron and Steel - is right for the environment."

By encouraging people to buy your DVDs, your plans, tons of steel, tons of lead, gallons of epoxy, a combustion engine, a polluting woodstove, a barnful of tools, blow off manganese fumes for years, etc. - you're simply promoting very destructive consumerism.

You really shouldn't do that...regardless of what the other "bad guys" are doing.
On Radio KGO San Francisco they had a neurologist, who described this 'Either -or, all or nothing, " thinking as a brain problem. Instead of a rheostat between the two, they had a toggle switch, which made them mentally incapable of comprehending the concept of anything lying between two extremes. They could only see any two points as being either-or, which describes radicals and extremists. I later saw this same factor described in a science magazine, as a brain injury, showing the part of the brain, which acts as a rheostat between two ideas, acting more like the toggle switch of an injured brain.
Sounds a lot like your suggestion ( and problem), that if we cant eliminate environmental problems completely, we should do nothing to try to reduce them.

Oh ya Steve! Try take it a bit easier on the scotch . It shows in your posts!
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Last edited by Brent Swain; 11-26-2013 at 06:27 PM.
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Old 11-26-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Got it Brent. I may have my buddy read this thread because I am not going to be able to remember all of this but thanks.

I appreciate the plumbing tips. This is another area where I am lacking. I may get back to you on that.

Question:
You said you were going to do your laundry. Do you launder a hair shirt on "normal cycle" or "delicate"?

Smackers:
That last post was brilliant!

" you don't have to worry about hitting shipping containers (because it IS a shipping container) - AND IT'S 100% RECYCLING!!!"

I bet you a US dollar that even No Fun Brent laughed on that one.

Lamb stew in pot and astewing.
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  #2318  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Actually, I think you're onto something Tim! THIS IS BRILLIANT!

BRENT, if you could convert a shipping container into a steel sailboat - you'd be a hero - for generations. It's everything you could possibly want in a boat...it's steel, you can weld all kinds of crazy crap to it, you don't have to worry about hitting shipping containers (because it IS a shipping container) - AND IT'S 100% RECYCLING!!!

Get on those drawings dude. Let's see you finally make the world a better place with your origami.

If Bob can do it for a canoe, surely you can do it for a shipping container.

I sure wouldn't want to hit that in a plastic boat on a dark moonless night.
Only a steel boat would survive it.
Again, thanks for making my point !
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Old 11-26-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I thought that was one of your boats Brent.

This is my idea of recycling.
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  #2320  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
On Radio KGO San Francisco they had a neurologist, who described this 'Either -or, all or nothing, " thinking as a brain problem. Instead of a rheostat between the two, they had a toggle switch, which made them mentally incapable of comprehending the concept of anything lying between two extremes. They could only see any two points as being either-or, which describes radicals and extremists. I later saw this same factor described in a science magazine, as a brain injury, showing the part of the brain, which acts as a rheostat between two ideas, acting more like the toggle switch of an injured brain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
I sure wouldn't want to hit that in a plastic boat on a dark moonless night.
Only a steel boat would survive it.
Again, thanks for making my point !
You can't pay for stuff this good*. Keep it coming brotha!

So are you going to tackle that orgami approach to the shipping container boat or not?

(*Brent, you can see the incredible irony in the above two quotes of yours, right?)
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