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  #2401  
Old 11-29-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Code for: "I was hammering scotch like a mofo!"
Haha, no, sorry to say,I was working my ass off.
smackdaddy and bobperry like this.
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  #2402  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
When I look at their product claims and their logo...



...I can't help but think it came out of this committee meeting...

That looks like a committee of Smackdaddy deciples.
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  #2403  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by casioqv View Post
I also appreciate recycling but it's almost a shame that fiberglass boats last so long... in the old days low budget cruisers had to design and build their own boats and this challenge prepared them for the challenges they'd later face at sea.

Nowadays you can't build a boat for less than 10 times the cost of a well built fiberglass boat that will likely outlive it's owner two times over. This takes something away from the cruising experience because you don't have the same technical knowledge or emotional connection with a boat you didn't build yourself.

I've read just about every old cruising epic from Slocum to the Pardeys and I really see a difference between people who built their own boat vs people who just have a production boat. People who built their own boats have categorically better seamanship, better "luck," and a better time at sea. These are the people that are prepared for the worst, and when it happens take it in stride.

Perhaps a good compromise is to just get the most neglected, derelict heap you can find for nearly free. A total restoration, learning and doing every task yourself costs more than a good condition boat but is still cheaper than building your own from scratch. At least that's what I told my wife when I recently travelled 1,000 miles to purchase the worst condition example I've ever seen of my 'dream' craft.
It's scary to think of the trouble I would have got myself into, had I been able to simply buy my first boat and head out to sea. I learned a lot in the time I spent building and acquiring the money to finally head out. While a lot of it was disinformation, from armchair experts, which cost me far more money and time than I needed to spend, which I try to disabuse beginners of on sites like this, I did learn a lot of valuable information during the economically forced delay, and heading out at 23 was not a huge span of life time wasted
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  #2404  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by casioqv View Post
Bob, before you mentioned how some old trawler conversions look terrible, but others look really good. Do you have any advice on how to make one look good? My dad is converting a 1930s cedar salmon trawler and has it stripped to the bare hull, and hasn't yet decided how to build a cabin.



I'm no yacht designer, but why would drawings be necessary to make one a yacht designer?

It sounds to me like Brent's boats were designed by hand constructing and testing models. I don't see how it matters if someone is using a mainstream method, as long as the method used delivers results.
Models give you an excellent opportunity to see how a boat looks from all angles. Another option is to hire a marine artist with a good set of eyes for aesthetics , for an hour or two.
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  #2405  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by casioqv View Post
Brent, do you have any tips for a low cost way of re-rustproofing currently painted steel that is starting to rust and flake the paint off?

I have an 'expedition vehicle' that I want to use to trailer my pocketcruiser through Baja salt marshes in order to beach launch and go sailing. It's an 80s diesel Isuzu Trooper (same engine as the Acrohc Australis has) and I want to rip it apart and rustproof it so it can survive a while with salt... but on a limited budget. I don't care how it looks, as long as it survives.

Should I take it to bare metal and then coat with coal tar epoxy? What would be a good prep process for this?
I bought a cheapo sandblaster for $20. You hook one end up to a compressor and stick the tube in a bucket of dry screened sand ( Thru a window screen works) You can rent the compressor from a rentals shop. Slow bu tOK for small jobs .Nothing works for steel like sandblasting. Any dry sand will work. Epoxy tar gives excellent protection on a boat. You have to paint the subsequent coats on within 48 hours, before any dew can fall on it. Dew will give it a brown amine blush, which will stop anything from sticking to it well.
Colour coats should be put on wet epoxy tar. That is the only way to get them to stick well . It will bleed thru and look like hell. Give it another coat within 24 hours , then let it harden for a couple of weeks . Then you can put any colour you want on, with no bleed thru.
This is what I do on steel boats, probably an over kill for what you want to do, but it works.
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  #2406  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

There is no way I would trust an artist to duplicate what I have drawn. I can draw 3D sketches of my boats all day long. I need 3D work that can be used for true evaluatiuon of the details in the design. I want a model that will reflect a ,5" change in cabin top camber or a 1" change in cabin top crown profile. I want accuracy so I can fine tune. With the 3D model completed we turn it back into a 2D drawings that can be overlaid over the starting drawings to make sure we have not strayed from the initial design targets. I don't want a pretty cabin trunk to find out I have lost 2" of headroom. When the fine tuning is done the 3D model is used for CNC tooling and that way I can be assurred that the tooling built is exactlly conforming to what I have drawn. This is all way beyond the capability of even the best artists. It's a nice idea but you can't drop a painting off at the CNC shop and say "Call when when the tooling is done."

Of course a beautiful painting can look very nice. But our 3D work isn't too shabby. If an owner wants some art I'll get Scott Chambers to carve him a half model.

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  #2407  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
He was suggesting (and I agree) that utilizing an EXISTING glass boat has a smaller footprint than making NEW steel for a new steel boat.

Tough to have a smaller footprint than using already existing stuff.

P.S. where is the quote or link about "shape not affecting strength"? Hard to believe that anyone who ever cracked an egg could be that obtuse.
You will find many such quotes, given and supported by "engineer" Mike Johns, on BD.net, the site Smack quotes as factual.
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  #2408  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Breat:
What is "epoxy tar"?
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  #2409  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
You will find many such quotes, given and supported by "engineer" Mike Johns, on BD.net, the site Smack quotes as factual.
So if he's an "engineer", I guess you're a "designer".
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  #2410  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Here is another example of why I can't use an artist to get the tolerances I need in designing harmonious shapes.

I think what we see here is a fundamental difference in my approach to "design" as opposed to Brent's approach. I'm certainly NOT saying one is right and one is wrong. I'm just suggesting you let your own eyes be the judge. If I am not quite sure I have a stern shaped the way I want it the accurate 3D model can put my mind at ease. This is our Swedish project in it's early stages.
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