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  #2421  
Old 11-29-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
The question was originally about the comparison between building a NEW FG boat and a new steel boat.

So you quit changing the subject!
Really, Brent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainQuiet View Post
I'm thinking about making the leap from fiberglass to steel for our next sailboat. We want to do some far flung cruising - maybe even circumnavigate. Our present boat is a 1977 Tartan 37 and while we love it - since we've had a child and possibly will have another one on the way it might get a bit small for a liveaboard situation.
This summer I drove a big, old steel tour boat around the finger lakes and started thinking that steel might be a good way to get my family around the big marble.
I've spent a week in the Caribbean on a glorious aluminium boat but have never sailed a steel one, so I have lots of questions about their performance as cruising boats?
What are some of the better designers to keep and eye out for?
How good are they in the hot climates?
Are there any extra dangers in lightning?
Thanks for any and all advice you can give.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainQuiet View Post
Thanks for all the feedback.
I'm not sure we're in the market for a newly built vessel - our budget is more aligned with 10- 20 year old boats.
I'm a novice welder and would like to find something that needs major TLC and new systems so I could put it together before heading out.
Weight and therefore slowness is something I thought might be an issue. We are shopping for something in the 40 to 45 foot range, so maybe the advice PCP gives about aluminium deserves a closer look - where could we find info about the French boats? I always thought aluminum was too expensive.
Center cockpit and aft cabin are also something that appeals to us. Cutter or Ketch both could work. The design of the Stevens 47 or the 44 Kelley Peterson, or even Ted Brewer's Whitby 42 are ones that I've liked. Any of those in steel out there?
Thanks again for all the feedback.
Yet again, not exactly "accurate" with your claims. And you wonder why people don't believe anything you say?
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  #2422  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Smackers:
If you think I'd waste my time and my scotch sending a bottle to BS then you have not been paying attention.

Send me your mailing address and I'll send you one too. No foollin'.
I have absolutely no use for a bottle of Scotch. I need a bottle of scotch the way a chicken needs Colonel Saunders!
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  #2423  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
I have absolutely no use for a bottle of Scotch. I need a bottle of scotch the way a chicken needs Colonel Saunders!
Now that's funny. Who the hell is this "Colonel Saunders"?
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  #2424  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Colonel Saunders?

He's deperately trying to change the subject again.

You miss my point (again) BS. I wouldn't send you scotch if you drank scotch.
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  #2425  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Brent some of us cruise our boats. We liberate hydro carbons going in and out of harbors. Our sails are made of synthetics and need periodic replacement requiring consumption of more energy and hydrocarbon liberation. The boats and boat bits wear out and need replacing. My lines are low stretch dyneema not hemp. My sails aren't Egyptian cotton. When sailing hell even my clothes are all synthetics( like a dry bottom). My " footprint" in my house is probably less than in my boat. Miles driven depends on how you make your living not if you live in a boat or house. Yes I think and act to decrease my footprint but this is totally independent of the decision to sail in Fe or grp .
By the way I've lived in 150 year old house. Have you lived in 150 year old steel boat.
Going back to the o.p. Increasingly it seems Al is better choice than Fe for those wanting a metal boat.
I apologize to all for raising the issue of etap.
Brent if you actually sail your boat you go through more hydrocarbons than the average city dweller in the world. Maybe you should stop wearing out your sails, running your engine, burning wood and move to Mumbai or NYC.
And for g-ds sake stop welding
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Last edited by outbound; 11-29-2013 at 07:20 PM.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

This Scott's guy will take the Scotch!

I'm also a bit Irish and Welsh, does that help any either? or explain my problems?!?!?!?

Marty
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  #2427  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Any time Marty. You know were I live.
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  #2428  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Here is another example of why I can't use an artist to get the tolerances I need in designing harmonious shapes.

I think what we see here is a fundamental difference in my approach to "design" as opposed to Brent's approach. I'm certainly NOT saying one is right and one is wrong. I'm just suggesting you let your own eyes be the judge. If I am not quite sure I have a stern shaped the way I want it the accurate 3D model can put my mind at ease. This is our Swedish project in it's early stages.
Nice shape; for fibreglass! Nasty shape , for steel ! Trying to get that radius on the cabin top- cabinside in steel would be a huge waste of time. I know one guy who tried it, and he got a lot of distortion. Most of the classics have no such huge radius there, and look just fine.
Hollow cockpit coamings are easy in GRP, but a huge mistake in steel. I know one guy who tired it on a Simpson design. Inaccessible corrosion inside. He cut them off, and replaced them with something simpler, and with full access for maintenance.
Nice a canoe stern; for fibreglass. A huge waste of time and money in steel . I know a guy who built a Brewer designed steel boat with that shape. Took him 2 years to build just the hull. $8K to have the stern plates rolled. It took several 45 gallon drums of filler to make it fair. This is what you get when you employ a designer who works mainly in GRP but who has no hands on experience in steel. What your computer can draw a pretty picture of, and what goes together easily in steel, without a huge infusion of time , money and filler, are radically different things. Only hands on experience in working with steel can give you an understanding of what works and what is a huge and very expensive waste of cruising time. Don't make the mistake of believing anyone's expertise or track record with fibreglass qualifies him equally to design in steel, or even comment on something he knows so little about.
Not everyone can afford to pay someone with the equipment $150 an hour. An artist can do it for far less.
When looking at an ugly boat one can learn a lot by nit just saying "Man that's ugly", but by asking "What makes it so ugly?" Sometimes just changing the shape of ports, or a line, etc., can make a huge difference. When you do that, you learn some basic rules about aesthetics, which can be applied elsewhere.
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Last edited by Brent Swain; 11-29-2013 at 07:41 PM.
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  #2429  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Breat:
What is "epoxy tar"?
Its coal tar based two part epoxy, sold by most paint manufacturers( Pittsburg , General, Cloverdale, International, etc). Some are 4 to 1 hardener to resin, some are 1 to1 .
1to1 is handier, but has a shorter shelf life than the 4 to1 brands.
A single coat of epoxy tar gives more protection than 5 of many other epoxy paints. Its a hard finish which I have used inside diesel tanks with no problems. It is often much cheaper than other, less effective epoxies.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Yes that's sad to see what has become of a brand that once made some of the best sailboats in the market (they were better than the Hunters Smack).











Their only big defect was not being made of steel.

Regards

Paulo
I wouldn't want to try get that kind of keel thru the kelp on the north coast. You would have a hell of time trying to get into Larsen Harbour or Burnaby Narrows (or many other places) with that contraption hanging off the bottom. Reality would over rule designers fantasies quickly, up there. Is that a real teak deck or a phoney one? Teak over fibreglass is a disaster waiting to happen.
How many seconds would that flimsy bow roller last, when the anchor was jammed under a rock in a swell, while you were trying to raise it quickly, on a lee shore at night?
Notice the huge weather helm.
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Last edited by Brent Swain; 11-29-2013 at 08:02 PM.
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