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  #2431  
Old 11-29-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

This is my son Max, my daughter in law Stacy and my lovely granddaughter Violet. In April they will be joined by my new grandson, no name yet. If you think for one moment that they are not reason enough for me to care about the environment and the future of the planet then you are a fool. A true fool. It is now their world. I'll do what I can to help leave it in good shape.

Max actually does have a neck despite the photo. But he's 6'5" and I think he feels the need to scrunch down all the time to fit in the picture. Violet is starting to look a lot like Stacy. Look at the eyes.



Brent:
I really don't think you have the design qualifications to comment on my design work. I'd have to see some of yours that I felt was on a par with mine to give you that degree of credibility. For now and until I see better you remain a design hack.

"Don't make the mistake of believing anyone's expertise or track record with steel qualifies him equally to design in fibergalss, or even comment on something he knows so little about."
I think that applies perfectly to you BS. Your words with some editing.
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Last edited by bobperry; 11-29-2013 at 08:09 PM.
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  #2432  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
This is what you get when you employ a designer who works mainly in GRP but who has no hands on experience in steel. What your computer can draw a pretty picture of, and what goes together easily in steel, without a huge infusion of time , money and filler, are radically different things. Only hands on experience in working with steel can give you an understanding of what works and what is a huge and very expensive waste of cruising time. Don't make the mistake of believing anyone's expertise or track record with fibreglass qualifies him equally to design in steel, or even comment on something he knows so little about.
It's funny how you keep forgetting about the steel boats Bob has mentioned...the ones he designed. He seems to have experience in steel.

How many GRP boats have you "designed" again, Brent?

If you could simply show your work as Bob has asked many, many times - instead of just incessantly insulting designers who can actually demonstrate what they claim - you might get some respect. As it is, you have none. Zero. Not even in steel.
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 11-29-2013 at 08:12 PM.
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  #2433  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

[QUOTE=bobperry;1167418]

And,,, stop this holier than thou, smaller carbon footprint BS. Nobody cares.


Here's the Bob Quote!
He clearly said he doesn't give a rats ass about the environment!
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  #2434  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
It's funny how you keep forgetting about the steel boats Bob has mentioned...the ones he designed. He seems to have experience in steel.

How many GRP boats have you "designed" again?

If you could simply show your work as Bob has asked many, many times - instead of just incessantly insulting designers who can actually demonstrate what they claim - you might get some respect. As it is, you have none. Zero. Not even in steel.
You can see all my designs on the origamiboats site(Yahoo groups) as I have mentioned many times here( to some slow learners?)
The designers of the boats with the screwups I mentioned, all have steel boat experience, designing the screw-ups.
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  #2435  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post

And,,, stop this holier than thou, smaller carbon footprint BS. Nobody cares.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Here's the Bob Quote!
He clearly said he doesn't give a rats ass about the environment!
No. He clearly said nobody cares about your holier than thou insistence that you have a smaller carbon footprint than everyone else. And he's right.

You're not a very good reader.
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  #2436  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I have designed four steel boats. I just don't like working in steel. The material is far too much in charge of the outcome. Perfect example is the BS method wher geometry is calling the shots. It works for BS and that's great but I am a designer and I like to control shapes so it doesn't work for me. But, looking back my four steel boats are head and shoulders better than anything BS produced. My steel NIGHT RUNNER is a honey as is my steel Tayana 37. Sorry I don't have any pics. It was pre-digital era.

I did the steel Tayan 37 for a guy I met at a party. He was an ex pro football player, big. We got to talking and he mentioned he was going to build a steel boat. He said he had the plans in the car. I asked to see them. He produced a set of plans that were so bad I said, " I'll design you a boat for free just to prevent you from building that boat." I think those were my exact words. He said, "Fine, let's do it." I designed the boat. Gratis.He built an amazing boat with hydraulic drive and a dry exhaust, a nice pilot house and a big cutter rig. He loved the boat. He was probably 35 years old when he fell over dead on the way to the grocery store.

He sent me an amazing gift, He went to one of the premier custom pipe makers in the US and had a pipe carved for me with my name inscribed in the bottom. It;s a giant straight grain pipe. Briar or really White Heath, the wood used for pipes, comes as a root burl. The grain is usually anything but straight. But once in a great while you get a burl with some straight grain. These pipes are very prescious. and rare. I have about a dozen of them. It's my hobby. What can I say. But I digress.
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  #2437  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
You can see all my designs on the origamiboats site(Yahoo groups) as I have mentioned many times here( to some slow learners?)
The designers of the boats with the screwups I mentioned, all have steel boat experience, designing the screw-ups.
I've looked at that site - and I've not seen anything that shows you are an actual yacht designer, as the term is commonly understood. There are some profile/plan drawings of your various boats (done, I think, by you), photos of you enriching the Chinese welding together new plant-raping steel hulls, some okay steel boats that have been built by a couple of others, and many that will likely never be finished, but nothing more than that (e.g - the kinds of detailed drawings and shape studies real designers like Bob Perry regularly puts up for each of his boats).

What am I missing?
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 11-29-2013 at 08:27 PM.
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  #2438  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Brent: Smacks is right. You are not a good reader. I meant in this thread environmental concerns do not seem appropos.
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  #2439  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

As far as I can tell Brent's boats, while appreciated by a few, all really look very similar except for length.
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  #2440  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Okay - I'm taking another look - trying to find ANYTHING that gives Brent the credibility to insult someone like Bob. So far - nothing.

There is this:

Yahoo Groups

This is one of the nicest examples of a BS boat I've seen in terms of quality construction (though it's aluminum, not steel apparently). Ironically, it's this quality construction that shows EXACTLY what Bob is talking about in terms of how the geometry method limits the shape, and how Brent's claims of a perfectly fair hull is not quite what it seems:


See the deformities in the hull shape?


See the waviness in the deckhouse edging?

Don't get me wrong. This is a very, very nice example of a BS boat. And I'm taking absolutely nothing away from the guy building it because he's clearly doing an incredible job. The problem is, he's limited by the "design". It's just not what Brent promises.
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 11-30-2013 at 02:56 PM.
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