Pros and cons of steel sailboats - Page 246 - SailNet Community
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post #2451 of 5317 Old 11-29-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

This is probably the most damning thing I've come across on BS' site:

Quote:
easysoftware99...: Only a small, elite group of people have the thousands of dollars and spare time available to build.
Yahoo Groups

I think that pretty much sums up how BS boats are not at all for the 99% as Brent claims. They are, according to his own customers, only for the small elite...the 1%.

I had such high hopes.


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post #2452 of 5317 Old 11-29-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
...........Why would they put all those kinks in if ,as "engineer" Mike Johns implies, shape has little or no effect on stiffness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
You will find many such quotes, given and supported by "engineer" Mike Johns, on BD.net, the site Smack quotes as factual.
You were caught out with dishonesty repeatedly on BD net and driven off by (un)popular appeal, dishonesty seems to be your hallmark these days too and it's getting worse.

Do you really believe all your posts or are you aware that you are getting a name throughout the world as a spin artist never to be trusted?

No body ever attacked you ever for being part aboriginal. BD net is strictly moderated and nothing racist is tolerated. You are simply lying.

The coast guard were never attacked on BD net for supporting you. In fact you tried to imply that a safety check once by the coastguard amounted to vindication of your design. It was simply pointed out that a safety gear check is just that.



Lets come back to shape and stiffness since you have been trying to mock me with that.

It was your contention that shape adds stiffness and therefore no framing was/is necessary on your metal foldup boats. You suggested up to variously 50, 60 and even once 65 feet.

Now read this slowly ……I and others spent some time and effort trying to show you the different between tensile, shear and buckling strength. How a framed thin panel is in tension under load, and is much stronger than a shaped unframed thin panel and why, and how a sheet of steel or stiffener that’s bent and fixed under a lot of stress buckles very easily from external loads. The last is a little harder to understand and it appears the whole lot went completely over your head.
The corollary you took from this is that because I said you were misinformed I am therefore saying shape doesn’t add stiffness ! That’s fairly typical of your level of understanding of engineering.

As an illustration; why did your initial designs buckle and rotate their keels up into the boat on relatively gentle grounding for example?
The answer is that the imagined strength from shape didn’t exist and a pre stressed shaped panel has two stable states and the transition is known as ‘snap through’.

The solution to this initial design flaw was to add ‘framing’ by using an inbuilt tank end to strengthen that area. Other parts of your boat designs still apparently damage easily from grounding. So what passes for a 36 footer will not pass for a 60 footer. I also offered to help you ( and consequently your future clients) to alter the design and put a small amount of material in a few strategic places to improve the design considerably. Your response was complete disinterest and a spate of very ignorant attacks on the process of load based design.

I think a lot of this bluster is because you are completely compromised by your past, misinformed advice, posts and publications. Now you are too entrenched in a stinking mire. So you throw lots of mud. But seems everyone is on to you here too.

But lets come back to the fact that if you can't link to anything it's just a complete fabrication. As I gave examples above.

Last edited by MikeJohns; 11-29-2013 at 11:38 PM. Reason: added commas
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post #2453 of 5317 Old 11-29-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Oh.

" So you throw lots of mud"
It keeps BS from having to discuss real design issues. Personal attacks are his only defence.

We should deserve better here.

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Last edited by bobperry; 11-29-2013 at 11:58 PM.
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post #2454 of 5317 Old 11-29-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Ouch
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post #2455 of 5317 Old 11-30-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
I did the steel Tayan 37 for a guy I met at a party. He was an ex pro football player, big. We got to talking and he mentioned he was going to build a steel boat. He said he had the plans in the car. I asked to see them. He produced a set of plans that were so bad I said, " I'll design you a boat for free just to prevent you from building that boat." I think those were my exact words. He said, "Fine, let's do it." I designed the boat.
If I round up some ugly plans, show them to you and threaten to build it, will you design ME a boat for free too?
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I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #2456 of 5317 Old 11-30-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I had a correspondence with Dick Newick about amature building.He said there is absolutley no reason to build an ugly boat,It take takes just as much effort and time to build a boxy ugly boat than one that is well designed from the start, maybe longer because of having to fix all the bad designers crap.
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post #2457 of 5317 Old 11-30-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Jak:
That has been my point all along. With the exact same materials and same amount of time cutting and welding, armed witha decent set of plans the home builder can build a good looking boat. But if the plans are lacking in detail and care you will have no idea what shapes will arise. If the designer wants to control the design elelemnts of the boat he MUST design!
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post #2458 of 5317 Old 11-30-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Smack,

showup during August if you can, 2nd or 3rd weekend is the Perry roundezvous at Port Ludlow! I've heard it is a PHun time. I was doing a Pink Boat Regatta so could not make it. Sorry Bob, boobs won out over you! Did raise 1800 or so for breast cancer research!

any way, off to take mrs to breakfast, then meet one of my sons to put a star on the top of the mast, and decorate the boat for the coming best decorated boat contest at the club. Have won 3 yrs in a row! Hopefully someone or two or three will step up and try to out do me. That would be good for ALL the folks that come to the marina to look at the lit up boats in the guest moorage area.

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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

100 hrs to build a brent boat?!?!?!?! I find that hard to believe. I've heard 40 hrs for a typical 8' pram depending upon how detailed you go with paint etc on one of them. 3 yrs start to finish, thats nothing. took my step dad 30 some years to get a B Garden boat finished! Probably because when building a boat, you can not spend 8-10 hrs a day 5-7 days a week working on it. You do 2-3 hrs here, and there and anywhere, and sooner or later you get finished. Took me a year in 6th grade to build an 8' pram.........

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post #2460 of 5317 Old 11-30-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

A former colleague is building a Brentboat... he used the metalworking/welding shop in the college where we worked to 'pull' the hull together... 15-20 years ago. It's still in his shed. I suppose he may well have pulled the hull and had it welded it up in 100 hours - but not 100 manhours...

Ron

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