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  #2551  
Old 12-01-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Jak:
I'm might impressed.
You can work on my teeth any time.
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  #2552  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Jak:
I'm might impressed.
You can work on my teeth any time.
I'll weld you up some super strong steel teeth
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  #2553  
Old 12-01-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Classic:
I don't have an easy answer for that.
My experience has been that those who need initials after their name to say what they can do cannot prove it any other way. I don't need to see initials afer a name. I need to see design work. I have been surrounded by this my entire professional carreer.

Does Bruce Farr put any initials after his name? Does Ron Holland?. Does Doug Peterson? Does Chuck Paine? Does Yves -Martie Tanton? Does Bruce King? Does Peter Melvin? Does Juan K? Does Mark Miills? Give me a phouquing break.
I wasn't necessarily thinking about the initials after your name - more the concept of membership of said official institution meaning something in the first place. I dunno, cheap swap meets or sumthing.

In your case, maybe it doesn't... But then, I guess, that puts Mr Swain in exactly the same category = 'yacht designer', don't it?


That leads in to the wider question of how Joe Public is supposed to know a good 'yacht designer' from a bad one?? Popular designs? Nope - you don't have to have vast numbers of designs out there to be good, although I'm sure it helps. Highest cost? Nope - obviously. Referral from a friend? Nope - it's not good just because some else says so. Race-winning designs? Nope - might not be into racing.. So how then?
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Last edited by Classic30; 12-01-2013 at 10:49 PM.
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  #2554  
Old 12-01-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Classic,

In my field and many others it is your body of work. You do anything you can without initials, membership whatever to begin to build it. In my field there are more certifications and such than you can wave a stick at. I have almost none of them, but my resume stands on its own. Getting basic membership in a society is usually an easier way to ENTER a profession, but it doesn't last without a body of work. In other words, if you are my age, and your body of work includes a degree (membership, cert, classification, etc) from 20 years ago and no real meat since, then you don't have much. I think this is what Bob is saying, at least it was my point.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Portfolio of work, reputation mean much more that initials after the name.

If I had to list my favorite 3 designers they would be (in no particular order) Chuck Paine, Steve Dashew, and Bob Perry. I do not think any have letters after their names. But they do each have a great body of work and have shown over decades continual improvement of the designs they have created.

I respect many more designers including Finot, Lovranos, Dix, Rodger Martin and Bill Lee.
Again no letters as far as I know.
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Last edited by mitiempo; 12-01-2013 at 11:30 PM.
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  #2556  
Old 12-01-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Classic:

You are so confused. I don't really think I'm qualified to help you. I'm just a yacht designer. I'll give it a shot:
You need to open your eyes. I can't tell you how to think.
Do you not trust your own observations? That's a shame.
You need to learn the art of evaluation, subjective and objective. It's not easy.
You seem to be struggling with it. Decide these things for yourself. If you are comfortable with your answers then great. I cannot provide your answers. I think for myself. You should try it.

It's fine.
Relax.
It's OK.
We don't have to agree.
It's even good if we don't agree.
It's not my job to educate you.

Jak:
My teeth are fine. Right now. Just had two new crowns. Expensive.
Do you do ferro cement crowns?
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Last edited by bobperry; 12-01-2013 at 11:37 PM.
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  #2557  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Classic:

You are so confused. I don't really think I'm qualified to help you. I'm just a yacht designer. I'll give it a shot:
You need to open your eyes. I can't tell you how to think.
Do you not trust your own observations? That's a shame.
You need to learn the art of evaluation, subjective and objective. It's not easy.
You seem to be struggling with it. Decide these things for yourself. If you are comfortable with your answers then great. I cannot provide your answers. I think for myself. You should try it.

It's fine.
Relax.
It's OK.
We don't have to agree.
It's even good if we don't agree.
It's not my job to educate you.

Jak:
My teeth are fine. Right now. Just had two new crowns. Expensive.
Do you do ferro cement crowns?
Nah to weak, Ill go to the scrap yard and pull an axel spring out of a pre 1975 ford 150, great tensile strength and you'll have tons of spares.Dentists have it all wrong, they work in the stone age
Lots of disinformation about what your mouth needs.All my clients have mouths like Jaws from the James Bond movie,They could eat there own cars if they chose to.
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Old 12-02-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
Portfolio of work, reputation mean much more that initials after the name.

If I had to list my favorite 3 designers they would be (in no particular order) Chuck Paine, Steve Dashew, and Bob Perry. I do not think any have letters after their names.
Since, as I said, I wasn't referring to letters after your name, I can only assume that means more to you guys over there than it does over here. But no matter..

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
But they do each have a great body of work and have shown over decades continual improvement of the designs they have created.
Thanks, Brian. I guess that's the answer I was looking for right there and it would appear that, in yacht design anyway, maybe that happens naturally without the assistance of any professional institute or other such organisation.

With no membership of a professional institute or other such organisation to share ideas around and fast-track the learning of newbies to the art, it would seem that perhaps improvements in yacht design happen by 'trial and error' with little or no learning from the mistakes of others. If that's true, I would pity any up-n'-coming designer because they would need to display a portfolio showing "a great body of work" (somehow funded by people willing to risk big$$ having a yacht designed by a complete rookie) before anyone would even look sideways at them.

Is that what you mean, Bob? Is that how it works? Your new designs are all progressively better than the old ones??

Just curious.
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Last edited by Classic30; 12-02-2013 at 12:38 AM.
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  #2559  
Old 12-02-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Bob,

I for one will NOT call myself an architect! as I am NOT one by any shape or form in ANY color you want to choose. I do have a 2 yr design degree tho. Even then, not sure I would use the term Designer after my name either. As I frankly have not as you say, put the time and energy into feeling I have ALL the person reflections to design on a high level. Yes I have the knowledge from classes, working with some EXCELLENT LA's etc. Even some excellent designers that AI have worked with do better than I. I can build a nifty wall, patio, lawn and plantings, and can decipher a set of plans to see if something is amiss and not right as I go.

I would ALSO need a 4 yr degree from a school, or enough work behind me, to pass the state exam and get a number like some engineers, drs, attorneys etc get passing those state exams. I have none of the above.

Any way, got AMoretto some what lit up today. Then a BIG 30 knot northerly with some rain came in, daughter and I decided tomorrow might be a better day to finish.......I also think I may not be voted the best lit/dressed boat in my club this year........one came in REALLY dressed up.

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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

In the early 70's a young sailor from California working in Skip Calkins office had a better idea for a racing boat for the One Ton class and he named it Ganbare. It won selection and was shipped to Europe. It didn't win the long race because of a tactical mistake but placed first in the other 5 races, placing second overall. His last name is Doug Peterson and he came home to 5 design commissions. He has designed many other boats in the years since including cruising boats and America's Cup boats for the Kiwis.

Ganbare is for sale now actually. ?Ganbare? ? 1972 Doug Peterson Sloop ? EUR 55000 | David Jones Yacht Brokerage

Ron Holland did about the same with a 1/4 tonner as I recall. Now he designs Superyachts.

Both have full portfolios of successful designs in the years since.

I think most designers start either this way or go out on their own after working for a major firm - Carter, S&S, etc.

Who cares what assn they belong to? Their work speaks for itself.
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Last edited by mitiempo; 12-02-2013 at 01:05 AM.
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