Pros and cons of steel sailboats - Page 271 - SailNet Community

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  #2701  
Old 12-07-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

"To remain at the top of the crop (and there are many crops)"

It very well could be Paulo that there are some sailors with no interest at all in staying at the "top of the crop". Perthaps they are perfectly happy with exactly what they have as it suits their style of sailing very well.

Grasshopper:
The continual search for something "better" can lead to unhappiness.

From my book THE ZEN BUDDHIST APPROACH TO YACHTING.
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  #2702  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
... But to my eye, and that's the only eye I care about, there is a sameness to them. Hulls are almost all identical in general form. ...there is definetely a sameness to these boats. But I suspect you don't see it. ...I find the boats you post almost all very good looking but I am getting a bit bored by the similarities. On the positive side I could say it this way, "They are all equally exciting and all equally good looking."
....
I don't see any "argument" here. You have your preferences and I have mine. Your preferences are right for you but they are not right for me. Outbound looks at yachting through his own life experinecs and he has his own preferences. They work well for him. They won't work for you. They are not right and they are not wrong they are just his. It's all good and heaven forbid we ever live in a one size fits all world....
These are not about mine or your preferences but about what sailors that have the money to buy new boats want. There is a reason for American boats with the exception of J boats (that is a very European type of boat) not selling almost any boat in Europe and European boats to sell considerable more than American boats in the US.

This is the preference that matter, the one of the sailors.

I find really odd you cannot find differences on those hulls, there are there beamy hulls and relatively moderate hulls, planning hulls and semi-planning hulls and very different types of boats with different aesthetics. Really the one thing they have in common is that they are modern, meaning not sharing any similitude with classic or traditional boats. Maybe you consider all modern boats to be very similar

Regards

Paulo
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  #2703  
Old 12-07-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Well Paulo, I'm new to all this. What would I know?
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  #2704  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
Well said, both of you..

I really appreciate Paulo's 'interesting sailboats' thread for the eye-opening differences between NA and Euro markets, buyers' desires, builders outlooks and practices. It is a shame that there isn't more diversity in the NA market, but it is what it is.

I too find a 'sameness' in those rather spectacular examples posted by Paulo, much like today it's hard to look at a vehicle and 'know' who made it without seeing the badging.

Still, at the gut level I much prefer, (and would probably buy, had I the resources) boats with interiors more like the Passports than the recent Euro crop.. fully understanding that that's at odds with a lightweight, performance boat that I'd appreciate on other levels. I'd love to be the first to import a Salona, for example (but even then, likely a slightly older one with a closer-to-traditional finish below).

...
Faster in what regards European offer there is for all tastes. Maybe I had just posted what I find the better design in what regards an "avantgarde" but you can find less "modern" designs even if only in what regards the looks because the performance is not compromised. I bet this one will make your style:









I would not mind to have one either.

Regards

Paulo
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  #2705  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post





Nice boat. He's sitting at the wrong wheel, though....

I bet it gets noisy at the dock sometimes...
Still... what is it, Paulo?
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Well Paulo, I'm new to all this. What would I know?
Bob you are a great designer and I am quite sure you can design any kind of boat but on the last years you have been designing one offs. Those regards what a particular sailor want and normally a sailor with very particular taste, otherwise he could find what he wanted, in a less expensive way, on the big market offer of production boats.

If you were hired by any major brand to design a production boat to be sold in great numbers you would have to design a boat that would appeal to the greater number of sailors. You would have to maximize performance, interior space and design a type of boat that would not be too expensive to build.

If your design was a successful one (in sales) it would not be that different regarding the many offers the production market has. The competition is huge and the production shipyards hire many of the best and more creative world's Na and there is a reason why the designs seem to you a lot alike: They follow the desires and tastes of the majority of sailors that have the money to buy those boats, otherwise they don't sell and the shipyard will go bankrupt. That has happened frequently on the last years and a lot more regarding conservative shipyards.

Regards

Paulo
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Faster in what regards European offer there is for all tastes. Maybe I had just posted what I find the better design in what regards an "avantgarde" but you can find less "modern" designs even if only in what regards the looks because the performance is not compromised. I bet this one will make your style:









I would not mind to have one either.

Regards

Paulo
Yes... that'll do just fine!
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Old 12-07-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

You are correct of course Paulo - the marketplace is pretty harsh about weeding out anything that doesn't have wide appeal.

The comment Faster made about cars is apropos though - even enthusiasts have to read the badges now in most cases to tell them apart. The same is happening to boats. Bill Garden once referred to "The vast fleets of white, triangular me-too's". And that was when there was still some variety in boats.

It isn't a change for the better IMO. It wouldn't have been quite so bad if it had happened when boats were still good looking but it's a shame that design (or styling at least) has become fixed at a point when performance boats are generally so ugly and soulless.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by djodenda View Post
Nice boat. He's sitting at the wrong wheel, though....

I bet it gets noisy at the dock sometimes...
Still... what is it, Paulo?
You are right Now they are seated on the right side



It's an Arcona 410. Looks almost classical on the design, but look at the hull: No compromise here. This boat will be able to cruise fast and comfortably but for the ones that will race it at club racing they will get a top performance.

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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
...
It isn't a change for the better IMO. It wouldn't have been quite so bad if it had happened when boats were still good looking but it's a shame that design (or styling at least) has become fixed at a point when performance boats are generally so ugly and soulless.
Fact is that what most sailors find more beautiful is the shape of a racing boat. I read some time ago a major NA article about the shapes of cruising boats being heavily influenced by the ones of the racing boats (not only now) and not only for a question of performance but because most sailors associate beauty with the shapes that give speed in a sailboat.

Regards

Paulo
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