Pros and cons of steel sailboats - Page 283 - SailNet Community
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post #2821 of 5317 Old 12-16-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Denda:
Right. In Bllard.

Next time let me know and I'll make sure you have access to the boat.
Thanks, Bob.. I'd be grateful. I rescheduled my trip for tomorrow. Hopefully we won't have airplane problems again. But if it happens again, I will call first.

(A locally built plane this time)

David

1987 CS 36 Merlin "Kyrie"

"They drove a dump truck full of money up to my house. I'm not made of stone!" -Krusty the Clown
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post #2822 of 5317 Old 12-16-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

David,

Too bad it was locked up. It is a beautiful boat. Not sure it would work for how you and I sail....but that does not mean one can not admire it for what it is!

Marty

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I drives me dinghy!
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post #2823 of 5317 Old 12-16-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Part of what makes this interesting to me is to think about what I would want if I could commission a boat "just for me"...

I hereby volunteer to help get the boat through the locks for the first time. I offer basic skills, patience, extra fenders, and line.

David

1987 CS 36 Merlin "Kyrie"

"They drove a dump truck full of money up to my house. I'm not made of stone!" -Krusty the Clown
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post #2824 of 5317 Old 12-16-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

That's a great question. Paulo tells us what's available. Bob shows us what's possible. But there hasn't been a discussion of what we really what. I mean not on the zillion dollar one off sphere but if we were designing a production or small run production boat. Of course would need to divide the discussion into
day sailor
coastal
blue water
high latitude
or like divisions

Still, would be a interesting discussion.
what material
what hull shape
what appendages
what size
what sail plan
what interior features

?anybody want to join in?

s/v Hippocampus
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post #2825 of 5317 Old 12-16-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
That's a great question. Paulo tells us what's available. Bob shows us what's possible. But there hasn't been a discussion of what we really what. I mean not on the zillion dollar one off sphere but if we were designing a production or small run production boat. Of course would need to divide the discussion into
day sailor
coastal
blue water
high latitude
or like divisions

Still, would be a interesting discussion.
what material Cold moulded wood
what hull shape Clipper bowed - old looking
what appendages Deep fin & bulb
what size 45-ish'
what sail plan Staysail Schooner
what interior features Pullman double and aft head, very woody & brassy.

?anybody want to join in?
My choices are the highlights.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #2826 of 5317 Old 12-16-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
That's a great question. Paulo tells us what's available. Bob shows us what's possible. But there hasn't been a discussion of what we really what. I mean not on the zillion dollar one off sphere but if we were designing a production or small run production boat. Of course would need to divide the discussion into
day sailor
coastal
blue water
high latitude
or like divisions

Still, would be a interesting discussion.
what material
what hull shape
what appendages
what size
what sail plan
what interior features

?anybody want to join in?
This is really no different of a question than the multitude of "what boat would you buy?" threads. Some have attempted at what you can afford, some from the sky is the limit........

I know the style of boat and where I would start at to help said designer get started.....where it finishes is another story. I've always like Jeanneaus sun fast 35. I would start with that, do a few tweaks and changes, it would probably end up around 38-40' OA. Real similar to the new SO 349 just introduced. I would actually find that hull a better start, but I know I would end up with at least a foot more draft, and another 100# of SA..........someday maybe.

best to be a different thread frankly imho not that it counts for more than .01.

Marty

She drives me boat,
I drives me dinghy!
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post #2827 of 5317 Old 12-16-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Jon- Why staysail schooner? I know they are more weatherly and used to see an sweet Cherubini 48 sail by frequently when I sailed out of Marion but now with current options for boomed sails a true schooner is as easy to sail even single. Love your choices but would go with jib being 7/8 of fore mast and fore mast 7/8 of main mast. Somehow I think that's the prettiest rig and a "man and a boy" can handle it in anything Neptune throws your way. I think it's a same the various split rigs are gone from the production ranks as for cruising they make so much sense.

s/v Hippocampus
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post #2828 of 5317 Old 12-16-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Marty was not thinking "what boat you would buy". Think we end up with boat is available that's closest to what boat we would want. Like you and the SO 349. Wanted input on what we want. Think to some extent production builders are tone deaf to what we would want. For instance Jon's thoughts are interesting to me as I respect his experience and at present to my knowledge there is only one builder of schooners in this country. They are narrow full keeled boats. Beautiful but a reputation for being wet. Seeing a schooner with a modern hull and bulbed fin would be wonderful.

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post #2829 of 5317 Old 12-16-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Jon- Why staysail schooner? I know they are more weatherly and used to see an sweet Cherubini 48 sail by frequently when I sailed out of Marion but now with current options for boomed sails a true schooner is as easy to sail even single. Love your choices but would go with jib being 7/8 of fore mast and fore mast 7/8 of main mast. Somehow I think that's the prettiest rig and a "man and a boy" can handle it in anything Neptune throws your way. I think it's a same the various split rigs are gone from the production ranks as for cruising they make so much sense.
Because they're the most beautiful rig and I'm only dreaming. I'd buy a Cherubini in a heartbeat if I had a spare $750K lying around.

I'm sure the maestro could draw up a big staysail rig that would work to windward pretty well.

Also, I'd be able to say things like "Hoist the gollywobbler".

P.S. My thoughts are well along the "Nightrunner" kind of thing but looking more like a Cherubini.

And I'd have the big diesel stove.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.

Last edited by SloopJonB; 12-16-2013 at 02:21 PM.
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post #2830 of 5317 Old 12-16-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Out,

That is probably true in that we would buy what is available.......BUT, with that in mind many of us find what is available to work just fine, but would like some things tweaked.

I would probably extend said boat a foot or two, along with a 2-3' prod to handle a fixed assymetric setup. Along with putting the anchor at the end, so that I could have a straight flush front. But in reality, all I have done is add the nose part with the fixed prod to a more std bow section, so I am not hitting the anchor on the bow when puling it up. Is this a good bad thing?!?!? who knows. just a different way of approaching an issue that is well known in my eye. Might even be better than a typical bow overhand, in that even this design could catch the sharp end of an anchor if it is swinging a bit. Possibly a better answer.

I would also have the forestay off the bow some, so one could have a below deck jib furler. This way I keep the SA low to the deck, with less farther above and off the deck so hopefully less heeling etc. I would also do a fractional rig with the biggest jib in the 120-130 range, and an option when it is spouse and I with a self tending 95% fore triangle jib. Total sail area would be around 23 to 25-1 for upwind work. Being as it is rather light winded here in the salish sea.

Down wind I want a hull that will allow 2x the hull speed with a crew on board in winds say over 20 knots. might need 25......that is another story for the designer to figure out.

Keel could be at least 7 if not 8' for where I sail here. This will also keep the boat lighter overall so speed specs could be met.

The SO349 and even the SF35 do not quite have the SA to meet the speed specs, but with some tweaking may be able to do so. The SF35 is around 24-1, the SO349 21-1 IIRC for both.

I'm pretty much doing week night around teh can racing, some on weekends, daysailing to weekending, with maybe one or two week longs in the summer. so my useage is different than others too. SO the how one uses a boat as you pointed out,needs to be kept in mind.

THere are some things like single vs dual rudders......not sure personally, that would probably have to be decided be how fat the ass end is to a degree. or do a really deep single rudder if the boat will heel some in certain conditions. I also prefer tillers over wheels from a steering standpoint. If the boat is fat in the rear, a tiller may not allow me the abiltity to see things to the side, so dual wheels may need to be done.

Sail lines etc would all be led to cockpit so a single person can get to ALL the lines. Line control cars would also be the norm for jibs and mainsail. So much easier to adjust the jib cars with lines from the cockpit vs pins and having to go forward and kick them......I mentioned this to the owner of Cape George boats a few weeks back. He had at the time the same opinion of some racing gimicks like this, but once I mentioned I can adjust the cars from the cockpit.....a lot nicer than going forward. He began to see the light on that item.

Marty

She drives me boat,
I drives me dinghy!
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