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  #3001  
Old 12-31-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Spent yesterday, visiting very grateful clients...
This is really the main difference I see between BS and other designers. Most other designers' clients just need to be happy with the end result - according to those very designers.

BS' clients need to be "grateful".

Do I, as a client, want a designer? Or a pair of second-hand boots I need to kiss?

Hmm.
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 12-31-2013 at 01:45 AM.
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  #3002  
Old 12-31-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
All our welds are full penetration.
"Our welds"??? Don't your clients build their own BS boats? How exactly can you claim this with "our welds" - when you have nothing to do with those welds?

And you wonder why Dove has dropped to $20K and is still not selling? Dude. Get a grip.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
I would not want a pool at the expense of someone else's cruising dreams.
Sure - but you'll take their pension...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Their success is mine.
Exactly. Seems like a theme.
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 01-01-2014 at 02:03 PM.
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  #3003  
Old 01-01-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Sloop...

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Bushnell's Dove IV is actually one of the nicest BS Boats I've ever seen. The interior is very well done (which is rarely the case) and she appears to be immaculately maintained. She's also very well equipped with the expensive "yachty absurdities" Brent likes to continually decry.

What's sad is that this is actually the PERFECT specimen of a BS Yacht. A lot of time and money has gone into it. And yet it can only command an asking price of $56,000 (+$63 for Brent's royalty). Definitely a value problem with these boats.
^^^^^From September (Dove IV - not II...even so....)^^^^^


Dove II might not have been holed by Fukushima Debris, but it's still sinking like a hunk of steel in terms of value. Less than $20K for all the blood, sweat, and money poured into it. That's really embarrassing.

If you insist on having a steel boat (which I personally would never, ever want) - buy this one. DO NOT build your own on the belief in BS' clearly inaccuarate claims that his boats hold their value. You will lose not only years of your life and most of your cruising kitty building one of these hulks - you will also lose your shirt when trying to sell it.

Taking into account all of the above, building a BS boat is a lose/lose proposition (Con)...unless you are a paranoid survivalist who fears Fukushima Debris like The Zombie Apocalypse (Pro).
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 01-01-2014 at 02:33 PM.
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  #3004  
Old 01-01-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

When a boat has a close encounter with a rocky coast which they have been known to do... A wooden boat or a pretty tupperware seem to last less then 19 minutes while a metal boat will get a dent that may be hard to buff out...Just saying...
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  #3005  
Old 01-01-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Bob:
You are absolutely correct. ( I think you made up the "19 minutes" part though and that hampers your credibility. 19 minutes? Really? Not 23 minutes? Could you please document where you got the 19 minutes from?) A steel boat will maintain it's watertight integrity when on the rocks longer than a grp or wooden boat. I don't think anyone had ever argued that. Speaking in very broad terms of course. But you might run into problems when you lump all steel boats together in one category. I could say the same for wood and grp boats. It's best not to generalize. Lots of variables come into play.

I still would never want a steel boat. DOVE II looks Ok but it still has all those crude details that scream "home builder" to me. That hard dodger is hideous. The single rail bow pulpit looks awkward and that brutal sharp edge on the cabin trunk has no degree of grace to it whatsoever. It appears to have no hatch over the salon. ISAF would not like that. I would not like that.

I think it's a good thing that we all like different kinds of boats. That has kept me in the design business for 46 years. I think it's also good that we all have our own reasons for our preferences. I'm not keen on other people telling me what kind of boat I should like, then calling me names because I have my own opinion.

Jejune
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Last edited by bobperry; 01-01-2014 at 04:00 PM.
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  #3006  
Old 01-01-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Hey Bob...I received your very cool Christmas gift. Thank you very much! I'll take a pic of it proudly displayed on my office desk when I eventually go back to work this week-ish.

PS - I'll get you a little New Year chachke in the mail soon.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Not sure how many people have seen this, but here is a link to the Brent Swain boat "MOM". Interesting material and presentation.

Sailing Vessel MOM

Lots of work in building this boat. Still, when it's done, it doesn't have the fine finish of a factory built boat (or if one can afford it, a one off custom boat built from fiberglass). And building quick is not a feature, at least not in this one.

No doubt when MOM and my boat collide, my fiberglass boat will be the one going to the bottom, but I still like mine better. I'll be careful not to get into such a collision. Mine looks better (in my opinion anyway). Ordered in May, delivered in Sept, fully commissioned in October, after a couple of hurricane delays.
Not a multiple year project. That counts a lot to me, and probably to lots of others.
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  #3008  
Old 01-01-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I have no problem with Mom. It looks fine to me. It's not what I would want but so be it.
I think they did a nice job on Mom.
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  #3009  
Old 01-02-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Nicely executed but if I was looking at steel with need to dry out and thin water capabilities I would look at Puffins Yacht Design | Olivier van Meer Design Naval Architect. Beautiful pilot house boats. Was on a 46' on the hard in N.H. Drop dead gorgeous interior. Old boat but looked like it just came out of the shed for the first time. Very well thought out and very liveable. From what I understand Van Meer has quite a following and his boats have none of the structural issues Mike has referred to.
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Old 01-02-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Spent New Year's Eve at a nearby marina, and took a dock walk looking for metal boats. Not many, but an interesting variety:



Amazon 37?




Interesting waterproofing of the deck house:



Didn't get a stern shot, but multichine aft..



And an 'ultimate' steel boat - maybe Mark's (Copacabana's) other boat?

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