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  #3021  
Old 01-02-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Just had a lot more typing deleted when I tried to post it. Frustrating! Must continually go from post to edit.
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Last edited by Brent Swain; 01-02-2014 at 09:12 PM.
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  #3022  
Old 01-02-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Nobody is censoring you Brent. You are entertaining. We like you here. You say funny things. I think it is some kind of technical problem with the site.

That happens to me too from time to time. It's quite annoying after 10 minutes of typing. You can avoid it, you really should considering how long winded your BS posts are, by typing your post in WORD then copying it and pasting it into the thread. It's easy. Little children can do it. It beats seeing all your typing dissapear. I can help you with it if you need help. I'm a whizz at this shite.
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  #3023  
Old 01-02-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Disclaimer- although I briefly went to engineering school I have no detailed knowledge of N.A. or structural engineering and unlike some admit it.
Still seem to recall all metals have thermal expansion and contraction issues. Although of greater degree in Al still operative in Fe. This is one reason framing in metal boats allowed to " float". Also seem to recall allowance for thermal effects is incorporated into design of attached framing such as at watertight bulkheads.
Seem to recall metal around welds and welds asked to handle load cycles generated by thermal effects are more likely to fail.
Also recall t or angle framing cut and welded to allow curve is much stronger than simple framing bent to curve.
Wonder how above issues impact on Brent boats.
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  #3024  
Old 01-02-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Disclaimer- although I briefly went to engineering school I have no detailed knowledge of N.A. or structural engineering and unlike some admit it.
Still seem to recall all metals have thermal expansion and contraction issues. Although of greater degree in Al still operative in Fe. This is one reason framing in metal boats allowed to " float". Also seem to recall allowance for thermal effects is incorporated into design of attached framing such as at watertight bulkheads.
Seem to recall metal around welds and welds asked to handle load cycles generated by thermal effects are more likely to fail.
Also recall t or angle framing cut and welded to allow curve is much stronger than simple framing bent to curve.
Wonder how above issues impact on Brent boats.
I asked my 91 year old father, a steam engineer most of his adult life , how much a hot exhaust pipe will expand when heated . He said " At 1500 degrees , a quarter inch in 15 feet."
It is not an issue on finished boats , but weld shrinkage while building is. That is why the roughest framed boats are those in which all plating was first attached to frames before doing the long seam welding, and the fairest are those in which the longitudinals are left to float free from the frames while the long welds are done, and only attached to the frames after the welding is done. Shrinkage from chine welds will lift the plate off the frames, sometimes by over an inch, in a beautiful ,slightly compound curve, if you let it.
If the plate is first welded to the frames, it cant move ,the edges shrink anyway and you get an oil canned , hungry horse look.
Welding the plate to longitudinals before final welding of long seams has no negative effect on distortion, but helps avoid distortion.
With frameless, the plate is free to move, and welding is far more forgiving. More shrinkage simply means more beautifully fair, compound curve. I have seen an inch and a quarter of compound curve between the chine and the sheer.
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  #3025  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Brent:
Why do you try to discuss "engineering" when you display over and over that you have problems with numbers? I think you are free and loose with the term "engineering". Maybe "my guess is" would work better for you. You have never presented any engineering here just vague generalities.
Engineering is the judicious application of logic, which I have given plenty of. No I don't need a computer or engineering degree to figure out if a 4X4 is stronger than a 2x4. Obviously, some do. I am frequently reminded here of the time I made a purchase in a drug store ,which came to $3.25. I gave the cashier $5.25,and she ran off to find her pocket calculator. She is what I call the " Mikey Generation." No logic allowed, just numbers juggling.
Without logic, engineering is nothing.
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  #3026  
Old 01-02-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Brent, if you presented your ideas minus all the anger, contemptuousness and attack mode you would probably find they get a better reception.

Just a thought.

And by the way, you never answered about the lifetime contributions to the CPP/OAS you are looking forward to collecting.
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  #3027  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
"Our welds"??? Don't your clients build their own BS boats? How exactly can you claim this with "our welds" - when you have nothing to do with those welds?

And you wonder why Dove has dropped to $20K and is still not selling? Dude. Get a grip.



Sure - but you'll take their pension...



Exactly. Seems like a theme.
When I sold my last boat in 1987, boats were selling a lot more quickly than they are today, for a lot more money. According to an article I read in Pacific Yachting at the time, the average time it took back then to sell a sailboat was 2 years. That's roughly how long it took me to sell mine, to a guy who has since built his second brentboat ,and crossed the Pacific twice in her.
Now they are giving away plastic boats, and grinding them up to make concrete reinforcement. A friend was offered an Alberg 35 for free in Mexico.
Does that mean the standard price for an Alberg is now zero? A guy on Lasquetti Island was given a good Rawson 30 for free. Does that mean, from this point on ,the value of a Rawson 30 is now zero?
Winston l told me that there is no way he is giving his boat away. He said $47 K period .If no one will give me that, then my daughter will inherit her. I just that he has sold her, to a California couple ,for $47K.
Steve ,get a grip! You have just bought your second sailing version of an Edsel. You are definitely not a good source of boat buying advice.
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Last edited by Brent Swain; 01-02-2014 at 09:26 PM.
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  #3028  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
Brent, if you presented your ideas minus all the anger, contemptuousness and attack mode you would probably find they get a better reception.

Just a thought.

And by the way, you never answered about the lifetime contributions to the CPP/OAS you are looking forward to collecting.
I only attack when I am being attacked . I have a right to respond in kind. I am definitely not a fan of Neville Chamberlain's approach. Where would we be today if we had taken his advice?
The average car in BC is subsidised to the tune of $2500 a year( cost of highways above gas taxes etc. Having never owned a car, I have not taken that subsidy. I have paid GST, HST manufacturing taxes, fuel taxes, sales taxes, etc. my entire life. No one takes my garbage from my front door, nor has delivered mail to my hatch. I am hooked to no grid and make my own energy from solar sources, and take my heating fuel from the beaches, so their oil company subsidies ( corporate charity ) don't give me full benefits. I have spent many long, unpaid , volunteer hours politically campaigning for the continuation of our social safety nets, including pensions and medicare.

The ratio of CEOs salary, to that of the average worker, has gone form 30 time to 300 times , all tax deductible as a business expense, which taxpayers have to make up for, in effect, subsidise. I have received no such subsidy. So why in hell should I feel guilty about not having had to subsidize such multi billionaires out of my pocket? My pension comes out of what Canadians call "The Mike Duffy Nutrition Fund ." Ask the nearest Canadian how that works, and if they would feel guilty about tapping in to it.
Being aboriginal ,I think it is about time they started paying us a bit of rent, and royalties for the resources they have been stealing ( our inheritance) .They are way behind in that department.
.
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Last edited by Brent Swain; 01-02-2014 at 09:45 PM.
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  #3029  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJohns View Post
If you have a heavier displacment solid GRP hull it will hold up quite well in a collision, Foam core ULDB won't.
But Mom is an interesting example, on BD net a pic was posted of her after she sat her stern down on a rock after a grounding, the resultant damage is a good example of the lack of panel support, caused simply by the boats own weight and lack of framing to distribute the load. Must have been disheartening for the owners.

Your boat would probably have survived this without damage. Steel boats can be made a lot tougher than this with a very small amount of material and a boat this size in steel should have been bomb proof. There are a lot of similar examples in Brent boats, don't let his marketing fool you into thinking they are extraordinarily tough.
MOM dried out next to me last summer . Zero damage!
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  #3030  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

So that would be "I never contributed and I'm playing the "part Aboriginal entitlement" card"?"

In other words, the rest of us get to support you.

I must be prescient - I had that one figured to the last detail.

How about this - on your 65th birthday you up anchor and sail off to the South Seas - permanently.
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