Pros and cons of steel sailboats - Page 311 - SailNet Community
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post #3101 of 5317 Old 01-08-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Cutting edge is as cutting edge does. A boat which comes even close to being able to break in half, is not as good a cruising boat as one which could sail right thru such a boat, without suffering significant damage. How close to being able to break in half are your boats, based on the same calculations?
Brent, seriously, do realize how stupid these comments sound? It really amazes me the stuff that comes out of your online mouth. How you can possibly be so far off-point is incredible.

You'll literally spin anything to try to maintain your backward view of things.

Brent, you really, really need to open your mind...just a bit. Because this is just getting foolish.


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post #3102 of 5317 Old 01-08-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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I want to chime in on a couple of points here. Not an expert but I own two steel sailboats and have looked at a few more when searching for what we have.

IIRC the rule of thumb is that 10 gage or 1/8" steel is about as thin as you can weld without too much heat distortion. Again generally speaking, scantlings for 10 gage work down to about 40 feet, so below that 10 gage is "overbuilt" which is why so many small steel boats are proportionately heavy.

My small boat, 33', is 10gage. The big boat, 44', is 1/4" first 3 plates then 3/16". But I have seen much bigger boats in 10 gage. Here is a link to a relatively famous 44'er in 10 gage. (3mm)

1989 Custom cruising ketch Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com



We looked at a couple of Colvin Gazelles. On one you had to crawl through the engine room to the aft cabin.

We also looked at a big (52?') Colvin ketch, damn near a schooner. Deeply raked masts, I mean Deep. That boat was 10 gage! Talked in person to the original owner/builder and I queried him closely on that point.

Her saloon was immense with a huge curving leather setee. You could waltz in there, with no handholds. Getting to the aft cabin you squeezed past the engine room, then crouched very low, nearly on your knees. The main bunk, a double, was to one side. IIRC the foot of the bunk was behind a bulkhead sorta like a quarter berth. We couldn't figure how to get In or out.

So, yes, 10 gage boats are out there and fairly common and yes some Colvin interiors are "interesting."
On a couple of Gazelles I have converted that crawl space thru the engine room into a wheelhouse. What a huge difference. Lets you use the full length of the boat . Turns it from a collection of closets to a real 40 footer. On the last one the skipper phoned Colvin. He said he couldn't get more than a couple of words out of his mouth before Colvin went on a long tirade. He was never allowed to say more than a couple of words before Colvin cut him off with a continuous rant. He gave up, and hung up.

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post #3103 of 5317 Old 01-08-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

How do they design pressure cans to take the pressure? Not Mikes drum skin, flat ,supported by the edges, shape. Check the bottom of pop cans, beer cans, aerosol spray cans, and some propane bottles. They are concave , taking the pressure in compression, on an arc , the same way origami hulls take the pressure. You don't see flat, drum skin type bottoms on such pressure containers, for good reason. Nor do you see framing..
I once made a muffler that way . The vibrations caused it to crack along the edges, from metal fatigue, the same way a hull depending on such an idea would tend to crack. Cut a pie shaped wedge out of it and pull it together, like a slight cone, and you will have no such problems. Again, depending on shape for strength, the same way origami hulls get their strength from shape.

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post #3104 of 5317 Old 01-08-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

BS:
I agree. The point being that you posted a video of an AC boat breaking in half. Then you go on to say, "A boat which comes even close to being able to break in half, is not as good a cruising boat as one which could sail right thru such a boat,"

Why would you even, for a second, think an AC boat is a "cruising boat"? You need to think a bit more about the diversity of boats out there and the diversity of intended uses.

The limits of your perspective amaze me.

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post #3105 of 5317 Old 01-08-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Brent, seriously, do realize how stupid these comments sound? It really amazes me the stuff that comes out of your online mouth. How you can possibly be so far off-point is incredible.

You'll literally spin anything to try to maintain your backward view of things.

Brent, you really, really need to open your mind...just a bit. Because this is just getting foolish.
What you are saying, and have been saying all along, is I should bury my head in the same sand of wilfully blind conformity that you bury yours in, and question nothing, nor try to innovate anything , as you contribute nothing but throw money at it solutions.
Now that would be really stupid .
Is that arctic air freezing your Texas brain.

Warm here lately . Love it.

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post #3106 of 5317 Old 01-08-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
What you are saying, and have been saying all along, is I should bury my head in the same sand of wilfully blind conformity that you bury yours in, and question nothing, nor try to innovate anything , as you contribute nothing but throw money at it solutions.
Actually, no, that's not what I'm saying at all, Brent.

I'm saying your head is buried so deeply in your own sandbox that you can't grasp the points of comparison of an AC racing yacht to a cruising boat - or that a boat is not always heeled at 25 degrees, thereby missing Stan Huntingford's point and accusing him of being the stupid one (when he's not here to defend himself) - or that having a First Nations GG-Grandmother doesn't suddenly make you a papoos in need of sudden respect or federal remuneration - or...

...well, this...

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post #3107 of 5317 Old 01-08-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Brent- I agree with you (OMG>>>OMG>>>>OMG). I think exterior wood has no place on a cruising boat unless you are wealthy and can others maintain the epiphanies or truly enjoy pulling varnish. My "plastic" boat has no exterior wood except a 2"by 2" piece of untreated teak under the bow light and some of the companion way doors which is also untreated solid teak.
You may want to re read your recent texts. Not only do they not correlate to naval design but not even to the basic physics an amateur such as myself knows to be true.

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post #3108 of 5317 Old 01-08-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Brent- I agree with you (OMG>>>OMG>>>>OMG). I think exterior wood has no place on a cruising boat unless you are wealthy and can others maintain the epiphanies or truly enjoy pulling varnish. My "plastic" boat has no exterior wood except a 2"by 2" piece of untreated teak under the bow light and some of the companion way doors which is also untreated solid teak.
Yes, well, fortunately the real world doesn't have to be quite that clear cut. Exterior wood has it's advantages and disadvantages.. as does plastic.. and steel.

Whilst it might be true that an excess of brightwork can be an expensive exercise and that some go well over the top flashing their bling around the harbour (if they wish to spend their lives varnishing, good luck to them), there are a few places on my old tub that were once painted and are now varnished simply *because* it's easier to look after them that way.

Bob's pic of NIGHT RUNNER is a great example: Undoubtably a very smartly designed and built yacht and no doubt very well sailed also - but to my eye, oh my, give the girl a proper paint job!! She looks like a squashed bee..

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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

My dad finally got fed up on his circumnavigation and painted the teak on his DownEaster 38.

Sad, but understandable

My present boat has one piece of exterior teak.. the hatchboard. Just right for me (especially since I got CharlieCobra to varnish it for me)

But I do appreciate well maintained brightwork..

David

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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by djodenda View Post
My dad finally got fed up on his circumnavigation and painted the teak on his DownEaster 38.

Sad, but understandable
David, give it a year or two. Once he sees how ugly dinged, scratched and faded paint looks, maybe he'll take it all off again.


That reminds me of the standard turn-of-phrase we were taught on Deck : something like "If it doesn't move, paint it: If it moves, paint it 'till it doesn't!". The paint on the hull of that ship was 1/2" thick in places - and cutting through decades of paint showed clear growth-rings like you get in a tree!

-
"Honestly, I don't know why seamen persist in getting wrecked in some of the outlandish places they do, when they can do it in a nice place like Fiji." -- John Caldwell, "Desperate Voyage"

Last edited by Classic30; 01-08-2014 at 05:34 PM.
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