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  #3111  
Old 01-08-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Classic:
Fact is I fought against the "natural" finish on NIGHT RUNNER from day one. Doug and I both ordered half models. Doug wanted his varnished I ordered mine with a black hull. I thought that if Doug saw the boat with a black painted hull he'd cave and go for the paint. But no.

My problem with natural hulls is that the grains today is not as uniform as it once was. Grain differences can raise aesthetic havoc with the lines of the hull. I want a homogenius finish that will show of the lines I have designed into the boat and the best way to get this is paint.

I was very happy when Doug finally decided to paint the sides of the cabin trunk after 30 years. Unfortunately he chose a "refrigerator" white while I favored a softer foam green.

But I have learned over the years that the paint job of my boats is most often where my advice is ignorred. But I'm not adamant about colors. The color of the boat will not change the performance and truth be told colors is not really one of my strong points.

At least I don't have to deal with the BS paint approach where his boats usually look like the builder got a deal on some off color at the hardware store and painted hull, deck, cabin trunk, railings and coamings all one color. Lovely. I do understand that it makes upkeep easier but it looks baaaaaaad.

Look to the upper right in this photo just to the left of my pipe rack and you can see the black hulled NIGHT RUNNER model.


For contrast here is my Australian buddie's boat ECLIPSE. It is very close to NR in general hull shape but painted dark flag blue. I think it is stunning. The hawse style anchor arrangement is now gone and replaced by a traditional roller off the sprit. And yes, No question, I do love posting photos of my beautiful, functional designs. " A thing of beauty is a joy forever."
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Last edited by bobperry; 01-08-2014 at 07:06 PM.
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  #3112  
Old 01-08-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Classic30 View Post
That reminds me of the standard turn-of-phrase we were taught on Deck : something like "If it doesn't move, paint it: If it moves, paint it 'till it doesn't!".
Sounds like a variation on the old instructions to enlisted naval crew - "If it moves, salute it, if it doesn't move, paint it."

Years ago I read some good advice about brightwork on offshore cruisers. It was to give it all a good varnish finish and then paint over that. Whilst out on the ocean you get the simplicity and durability of a paint finish but once the cruising is done, it can be stripped back and returned to a bright finish without having to sand deeply to get the paint out of the wood grain.

Best of both worlds.
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  #3113  
Old 01-08-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

"If it moves, salute it, if it doesn't move, paint it."

I heard a similar saying but slightly different and they won't let me post my version here.
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  #3114  
Old 01-08-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by Classic30 View Post
David, give it a year or two. Once he sees how ugly dinged, scratched and faded paint looks, maybe he'll take it all off again.
The teak remained painted for at least 5 years. It was that way when he sold it. Don't know what the new owner did.

The new owner wasn't very experienced. He was surprised that the dinghy outboard went swimming after he leaned it up against the boat at the dock...

I never cared for that boat very much. But she did keep my Dad safe.
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  #3115  
Old 01-08-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Classic:
Fact is I fought against the "natural" finish on NIGHT RUNNER from day one. Doug and I both ordered half models. Doug wanted his varnished I ordered mine with a black hull. I thought that if Doug saw the boat with a black painted hull he'd cave and go for the paint. But no.

My problem with natural hulls is that the grains today is not as uniform as it once was. Grain differences can raise aesthetic havoc with the lines of the hull. I want a homogenius finish that will show of the lines I have designed into the boat and the best way to get this is paint.
..plus a cove stripe. Preferably a gold cove stripe. But, yes, agreed 100%.

..and I'm with you on the colour scheme on the half model you have for NIGHT RUNNER. Looks just fine to me. Maybe some day the owner (or a future owner) will get tired of the upkeep and give her the paint job she deserves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
For contrast here is my Australian buddie's boat ECLIPSE. It is very close to NR in general hull shape but painted dark flag blue. I think it is stunning. The hawse style anchor arrangement is now gone and replaced by a traditional roller off the sprit. And yes, No question, I do love posting photos of my beautiful, functional designs. " A thing of beauty is a joy forever."
Stunning - most certainly. But dark hull paint and timber can cause big issues in warmer climates (absorbing heat and causing the timber to dry out) and be almost as difficult to keep up as varnishing the thing.

Even wayy down south here in Melbourne, no one in their right mind has a dark-painted timber hull and the few there may be that do change their minds pretty quickly. We see topsides drying out and cracking just a little with standard white, so you can imagine what happens with black. The classic fleet in New Zealand have similar issues.

At least varnish (a soft one) flexes, I suppose.. but for those of us not fortunate enough to live in your mild climate, it seems white is the best compromise.


FWIW, I've gone for varnish above the rub-rail on my little ship simply because it's (a) easier to look after (b) doesn't get chipped and generally knocked about and (c) enhances her lines:



..and, yes, that headsail turning block set-up was a temporary arrangement.
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Last edited by Classic30; 01-08-2014 at 07:49 PM.
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  #3116  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Think bright work is drop dead gorgeous and on classic boats "classic" so the way to go. I had a Tayana and even the stick and boom were bright. The trim on my PSC was bright. Had interesting conversations about to prep, how to thin and how to pull. Could spend hours talking about foam v. badger. But given budget always did my own wood. Have "wooded" two boats and brought them back. Think the last time killed it for me. Now get to fix heads and sand bottoms instead. Just as much fun.
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  #3117  
Old 01-08-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

My Australian buddy, from Sydney, spent two years cruising the South Pacific so I think he is aware of the heat issue. He's not new at this. I'll be curious to hear what he has to say about the blue hull in a couple of years. Boat is still in Seattle being finished.

My half model of NR does have a gold cove stripe. I don't miss much. I take great care in positionng cove stripes. I give offsets for the location and often full sized templates for the end treatments. Which are often ignorred.
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Last edited by bobperry; 01-08-2014 at 07:52 PM.
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  #3118  
Old 01-08-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
"If it moves, salute it, if it doesn't move, paint it."

I heard a similar saying but slightly different and they won't let me post my version here.
Post it on SA.
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  #3119  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Pardon, I'm drunk, what two part paint (epoxy) adhears to a good varnish?
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  #3120  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by desert rat View Post
Pardon, I'm drunk, what two part paint (epoxy) adhears to a good varnish?
There are plenty of two-pack varnish systems out there that would take a two-pack over the top - but if you want to be able to cut back to your varnish later, you wouldn't be using two-pack over the top.. IMO.

..unless you're drunk.


EDIT: To be honest, you don't really need varnish underneath - CPES would seal the timber just as nicely and be heaps easier to apply - but I think Jon's point was that you could paint over a good varnish. Heck, I find myself painting over good varnish all the time: a drop here and a smear there..
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Last edited by Classic30; 01-08-2014 at 11:15 PM.
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