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  #3321  
Old 01-24-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

"Olympic sized pool. Ozone bleached ,No chlorine smell./ "

How much of that Olympic size pool do you take up BS? Oh Ok, I imagine you are a thrasher. You may need more space.
I never use Chlorine.
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  #3322  
Old 01-24-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Marty:
Those Castro boats are good looking by any standard. And they sail well. What's not to like?
Hey.. don't get me wrong.. I feel extremely fortunate to have such a great boat. She's not perfect, but she sure is fine...

Back to the subject, sort of...

I think few people will deny (well, I can think of one) that the development of GRP boats has created a revolution in the world of sailing, with ordinary folks became able to afford to own and maintain sailboats, to a level that wasn't generally possible before.

In the mid-sixties, my father, a machinist at General Motors, was able to buy, maintain, and sail a boat (Shark 24) large enough to take my mother and us 4 kids for weekend sails in Michigan.

It was something he could afford to do, and maintain the boat without special skills!

We are all lucky to live in such a time.
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  #3323  
Old 01-24-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Paulo hooked me up with another article in another German magazine. Seems my clients are well known cruisers. I did not know that. I just knew they were cruisers. So here they are, risking life and limb in a Perry design blasting their way accross the ocean totally anawares that they are not having fun and they may die any moment. I'll bet you this family owns this boat for another ten years. It's a beauty. Makes me proud and arrogant. It may get worse tonight.
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  #3324  
Old 01-24-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

You certainly have a eye. Both that red boat and the new version of the outbound look to have beautiful form with I expect great function. Self love is better than self hate as long as your not self centered. Go have a nice glass of wine with your swimmies on in your heated pool.
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  #3325  
Old 01-24-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I couldn't be arsed to read the preceding 332 pages of this thread, I would think most of Brent's posts on the forum are probably in here somewhere. Anyway, saw this and thought of you all
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  #3326  
Old 01-24-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Thanks Out. I appreciate your kind comment.

When I was 15 years old I would start the day with a huge bowl of cornflakes. I would cover the top with .5" of white sugar. I would get out my files of Bill Garden and Phil Rhodes design and eat my cereal while going through the designs. I would usually eat around three bowls of cereal before I was done. Porbably a half cup of sugar. But what I was consciously trying to do was to imprint my own eye with the sense of proportion that Rhodes and Garden had. I literally thought about it like that. I wanted to learn the skill that probably Garden and Rhodes were born with. The thouht of growing up to draw butt ugly, crude boats never entered my mind.

I was 15 and on walkabout. I had walked from our home on Mercer Island, accross the floating brdge, through Seattle to Fremont where I crossed the Fremont Brdige and continued down the north side of Lake Union. Among the marinas and docks there I saw SEQUIN the steel hulled Garden designed Schooner that had, at one time, belonged to my doctor Earl Lasher. It was a magnificent vesel fallen on hard times. Someone had painted the entire boat and I mean ENTIRE boat sort of bright distress green. I was devastated. Garden had laid out a delicate and sensitive paint job for SEQUIN.

But as I looked at it I thought, under that awful, ignorant paint job are some beautiful lines. I thought, when I design my boats I want them to be able to retain their dignity of design even when have been left to rot.

Kids think weird things.
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  #3327  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

$39,500? Might sell for $29,000. Not too bad a looking boat.
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  #3328  
Old 01-24-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Tad Roberts calculated the ultimate stability of my 36 at 165 degrees, which he posted on BD.net. Jim, the Russian computer whizz, calculated it on his computer, and came up with 175 degrees, which he posed on the origamiboats site. …..
You keep saying this, you even said it to Tad himself and his reply is here: Swain BS_36 Stability curve - Page 18 - Boat Design Forums (where you are posting as Jack Hickson).

Tad says 131 degrees based on the lines you provide and his most thorough estimate of weights and moments which he gave you for free to comment on and modify if required.
That was his final figure, anything else was preliminary and was altered as the study progressed and that included a 3d computer model of the hull.

I even posted about this on this thread earlier

I'll repeat this again…..
For a higher figure you are relying on an intact and buoyant mast, neither of which is figured into inversion calculations for any sailboat for several reasons. So “Jim” apparently factored an intact buoyant mast to get 175 degrees. Presuming he used the same center of gravity as Tad he must have.

But importantly you don’t understand why we don’t use mast volume in ultimate stability, masts seldom stay intact in an inversion.
But significantly it isn’t really a real situation, the smooth water GZ curve is just a good rule of thumb for comparison of craft in waves and their relative safety.
If you count the a buoyant mast in the GZ then we need to do that for every design you compare it with, not include a buoyant mast in your stability curves and exclude it in other boats it’s being compared with.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
The buoyancy of deck structures has a major role in that , and how can that be determined by slightly inclining a boat at the dock, without getting them wet? ........... Which means no one should believe anything you post, from this point on!.
Unfortunately this really shows how little you are prepared to learn if the result doesn’t suit you. It’s really concerning that a boat designer can be so willfully ignorant, this was all explained to you before several times over the last few years. Especially since stability is constantly being misrepresented and misunderstood by you.

So again this is being explained to you here and now:
The inclining test is not a test of the GZ curve to the angle of vanishing stability (AVS, ultimate stability angle, LPS etc). The inclining test establishes the location of the center of gravity (CG). The GZ curve is then generated with a numerical model and the CG using a computer.

So unless you get that inclining test, and it disproves Tad Roberts best estimate of the center of gravity from his weights and moments study, then you should only quote 131 degrees. To tell anyone anything else is misrepresentation. Especially now it’s been explained to you clearly several times.
The design should not be promoted as a good offshore design for a 36 foot offshore boat that’s a very poor stability figure . In severe weather these designs are likely to be rolled, and are well below the sensible offshore requirements.
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Last edited by MikeJohns; 01-24-2014 at 10:10 PM.
  #3329  
Old 01-24-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Why is it that the marketing photos for BS Yachts almost never show them sailing, but sitting on land somewhere? Unfinished in a backyard, unfinished on a farm, unfinished on a piece of land someone "borrowed", unfinished in a shed, or actually finished but grounded somewhere.



What does the word "cruising" mean in Canadianese anyway?
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 01-24-2014 at 10:28 PM.
  #3330  
Old 01-24-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Paulo hooked me up with another article in another German magazine. Seems my clients are well known cruisers. I did not know that. I just knew they were cruisers. So here they are, risking life and limb in a Perry design blasting their way accross the ocean totally anawares that they are not having fun and they may die any moment. I'll bet you this family owns this boat for another ten years. It's a beauty. Makes me proud and arrogant. It may get worse tonight.

here is what I posted on interesting boat thread some weeks ago:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
A 10 year old Bob Perry aluminium design built in Europe by Jachtbouw Folmer....

....has found some great new owners, a German couple ( Nathalie Müller e Michael Wnuknow) with two kids, that have meet at sea and have being travelling together for the last decade, first on a steel boat, the Iron Lady and now on Marlin, a Bob Perry design, that is doing now what was designed to do in first place.

The boat has won a new live and looks better than new.

They are a quite famous in Germany with a published book and a blog that has been many times presented on the "Yacht" German magazine one of the the biggest in Europe.


Blog*|*YACHT.DE

SY Marlin

Some photos of the boat and the family:





















and a movie:

Sie nannten sie Marlin from Tigersnail Film on Vimeo.



Now you are going to be even worse. I am going to bed.

Regards

paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 01-24-2014 at 10:21 PM.
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