Pros and cons of steel sailboats - Page 336 - SailNet Community
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post #3351 of 5317 Old 01-25-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats










I build an paint a rather nice bicycle and have fixed enough Cannondale paint jobs

They fail because of obsessive needless weight control vs the weight of enough paint that will last more then a year

keep in mind a long lasting paint job will add 1 pound to a 57 cm frame











Same thing with a mast almost nobody wants to pay what it cost to do the job correctly and again its freaking heavy







When i painted the Cal 29 with Alwgrip working outside after the primer was done required a 7 month delay after i lost my window in the fall after Earl the hurricane that never happened

If you do not wait for the right humidity it kills the gloss

1970 Cal 29 Sea Fever

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post #3352 of 5317 Old 01-25-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Not enough paint is the main cause of maintenance problems on steel boats as well. Some commercial builders like it thin, because it gives one a smoother finish with less work. The thicker it gets, the more inclined it is to need a lot of work to keep it smooth, the wrong priorities on a full time cruising boat. If you can still see the weld pattern thru the paint, it is definitely not thick enough.

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"
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post #3353 of 5317 Old 01-25-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Looking at the Al boat made me recall article in a trade journal in which the owner of Waterline discussed paint. He commented on how hard it is to keep paint on Al c/w Fe. I see even many top end Al hulls ( K+M, Boreal, Kanter) boats are left bare. ? Why won't Al hold paint? ?Are there new paint systems for Al?
Bruce Cope ( of Cope Aluminium Boats, in Parksville BC) told me that the only reliable way he could get paint to stick to aluminium was to sandblast it lightly. A light blasting with 16 grit sand gives a very rough, sharply keyed surface, a far better surface than aluminium with an etch primer on it. He tried etch primer, but said the vinyl based etch primer was softer than the epoxy which went over it, making the epoxy far more prone to chipping. Epoxy over freshly sand blasted aluminium was the best.

I've used vinegar to remove the oxide from aluminium and galvanized steel , before painting, with good results.

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"

Last edited by Brent Swain; 01-25-2014 at 07:10 PM.
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post #3354 of 5317 Old 01-25-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
I agree that an AVS OF 130 would not be considered 'dangerously unstable' but I think that the point about Tad Robert's calculation of the AVS was that Tad did not have an accurate VCG and so the number is at best an approximation, and at worst totally bogus.

Jeff
That first calculation was based on a much lower freeboard, which we abandoned in the early 80s. Tad posted a calculation based on the current freeboard on my 36 ,5 1/2 inches higher amidships, which gave him an AVS of 165 degrees, which he posted on BD.net
How many stock boats have that high an AVS, let alone the 175 degrees Jim calculated, and posted on the origamiboats site?
My steel mast has a buoyancy equal to its dry weight, which adds a huge amount of self righting moment , far more than that of an unsealed aluminium mast, full of water.

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post #3355 of 5317 Old 01-25-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Mike, I'm glad you posted this. After reading some of the posts on that forum, it looks like even Brent's peers in steel design and building have concerns about his claims. Looks like he pulled the same stunts over there as he has been doing here. He's lost nearly all credibility with me (good ideas regarding steel maintenance excluded) and comes off like a used car salesman.
Scroll a little further and you will find his 165 degree stability curve, based on my current 36 footer freeboard, as we have been building since 1984. Or you could check out the files section of the origamiboats site and find Jims computer calculations showing a 175 degree stability curve.
I don't consider luddite Neanderthals, who cling to outdated building methods , as my peers.
Norm Moore posted a comment on the origamiboats site, about a couple building a Roberts design from a pre cut kit, being proud of having taken 116 days to get a 36 ft hull together, something I have done in two days.
I would much rather you build your boat their way. Let me know where, so I can sit in the shade and watch you waste months of your time, following the Neanderthalls' advice

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post #3356 of 5317 Old 01-25-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Scroll a little further and you will find his 165 degree stability curve, based on my current 36 footer freeboard, as we have been building since 1984. Or you could check out the files section of the origamiboats site and find Jims computer calculations showing a 175 degree stability curve.
I don't consider luddite Neanderthals, who cling to outdated building methods , as my peers.
Norm Moore posted a comment on the origamiboats site, about a couple building a Roberts design from a pre cut kit, being proud of having taken 116 days to get a 36 ft hull together, something I have done in two days.
I would much rather you build your boat their way. Let me know where, so I can sit in the shade and watch you waste months of your time, following the Neanderthalls' advice
So you're saying Norm Moore, of the Western Australian Legeslative Council, is a Luddite Neanderthal?

Does he know that?


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post #3357 of 5317 Old 01-25-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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So basically you're saying that totally guessing at everything you're doing, seeing that you've completely screwed it up when it fails its first test, then going back and guessing again, screwing it up again, over and over and over - is better than science?



Yes but that only works if the human involved actually gets it right eventually. Otherwise, we are still stuck in the steel age.



Have you seen this thread:

BS Yachts Marketing Program
The BS marketing program would be great post, if you ignore or delete the white parts. I stand by all my comments .
If you run a felt pen thru the naïve ramblings of the yappy little Texas Chihuahua, trying to write between the lines, and get attention he doesn't deserve , and keep only the blue part ,you will have a GOLD MINE of information. It would be a great post, without the yappy little chihauhua trying to make himself feel important, by yapping at the heels of the St Bernard.
However, such is the way of the yappy little dogs, and their "small dog complex", who feel so insignificant (Which they are) .
Funny thing . I don't see the words fat or ugly in any of my posts. Seems the yappy little dog is dyslexic, and his comments are obviously those of a dyslexic . They should be taken as such!

(Dyslexics of the world UNTIE)

Apologies for the typos . Don't have infinite time to correct them.

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"

Last edited by Brent Swain; 01-25-2014 at 08:23 PM.
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post #3358 of 5317 Old 01-25-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
The BS marketing program would be great post, if you ignore or delete the white parts. I stand by all my comments .
If you run a felt pen thru the naïve ramblings of the yappy little Texas Chihuahua, trying to write between the lines, and get attention he doesn't deserve , and keep only the blue part ,you will have a GOLD MINE of information. It would be a great post, without the yappy little chihauhua trying to make himself feel important, by yapping at the heels of the St Bernard.
However, such is the way of the yappy little dogs, and their "small dog complex", who feel so insignificant (Which they are) .
Funny thing . I don't see the words fat or ugly in any of my posts. Seems the yappy little dog is dyslexic, and his comments are obviously those of a dyslexic . They should be taken as such!

(Dyslexics of the world UNTIE)

Apologies for the typos . Don't have infinite time to correct them.
Hey, I AM important. And I deserve lots of attention. Because I'm right.

I agree with Bob, you have to be hitting the sauce from that barrel around your neck. Sober people just don't talk like you do...St. Bernard Swain.


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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Re: painting aluminium bikes - why aren't they simply anodized? Lots of really cool colours available and it would weigh next to nothing since it's merely a type of dye.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #3360 of 5317 Old 01-25-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Scroll a little further and you will find his 165 degree stability curve, based on my current 36 footer freeboard, as we have been building since 1984. Or you could check out the files section of the origamiboats site and find Jims computer calculations showing a 175 degree stability curve.
I don't consider luddite Neanderthals, who cling to outdated building methods , as my peers.
Norm Moore posted a comment on the origamiboats site, about a couple building a Roberts design from a pre cut kit, being proud of having taken 116 days to get a 36 ft hull together, something I have done in two days.
I would much rather you build your boat their way. Let me know where, so I can sit in the shade and watch you waste months of your time, following the Neanderthalls' advice
Sorry Brent, I assumed you would understand what a hypothetical scenario was. My bad. No, I'm not going to believe you, I'm not going to hunt for the information, and no, I'm not going to build a boat. If you want to actually back up anything you have to say, then you post it since you have been quoting it so much. Hoorah for you! You can weld faster than the Moore's. That's saying a lot. But until you quit blowing hot air and actually start posting some things that put substance in your gas, I'll just keep laughing at the funny smell.
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