Pros and cons of steel sailboats - Page 34 - SailNet Community
 1723Likes
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #331 of 5317 Old 07-31-2013
Splashed
 
JomsViking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 554
Thanks: 28
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Here are some of Neil Rabinowitz's Photos from the SLIVER move. This boat has a steel keel fin and an elaborate steel floor system to support mast and keel loads so I think it belongs here. Besides it raises the aesthetic bar and this thread could use that. I'm off to Seattle tomorrow to see it at the new yard. And no, I am most certainly not going to shoot it.
Love it!

Please keep posting Pictures.

/Joms

Watch great footage about the story of one man’s slow odyssey around the UK:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
JomsViking is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #332 of 5317 Old 07-31-2013
Senior Moment Member
 
SloopJonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 11,357
Thanks: 59
Thanked 67 Times in 64 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Here are some of Neil Rabinowitz's Photos from the SLIVER move. This boat has a steel keel fin and an elaborate steel floor system to support mast and keel loads so I think it belongs here. Besides it raises the aesthetic bar and this thread could use that. I'm off to Seattle tomorrow to see it at the new yard. And no, I am most certainly not going to shoot it.
Have you got another Swiftsure winner there Bob?

And PLEASE - tell us those steel floors are stainless, not coated mild steel. That's been done and it always seems to end badly, eventually.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
SloopJonB is offline  
post #333 of 5317 Old 07-31-2013
sailing soon
 
mark2gmtrans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 813
Thanks: 2
Thanked 30 Times in 30 Posts
Rep Power: 3
 
Send a message via Yahoo to mark2gmtrans
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
I worked for may years on a brake press in the 70's, at Mainland Foundry in Vancouver on a 180 ton Pearson hydraulic, along with plate rolls and section rolls, at Canron in Vancouver, on a 400 ton Pacific hydraulic and a Cincinatti 600 ton mechanical flywheel brake , and in Auckland at A&G Price on an 87 ton Dye hydraulic. I was considered very innovative as a brake operator, being asked to do jobs no one else could figure out. In all the boatbuilding I have done 38 hulls , I have only seen about 15 minutes worth of brake press use which would have been helpful, the edges of the forehatch and main hatch cover and the cockpit well, which we have had done for as little as $10. I have seen no use for any other kind of rolls in my boats. They could be useful on a power boat, with so many straight corners, but not on a sailboat, with almost all corners curved.
Plasma is nice , but not worth the cost for a one off. For the last boat we found it too finicky, and it quit often, without reason, so we used the torch mostly.
Inability to build a small steel sailboat without such expensive toys would take a total lack of imagination, or lack of ability to innovate.
Welds on a 36 footer simply don't break, no matter how badly they are done. I've never heard of it happening. The inertia of a 36 is simply not great enough. How does even the worst weld compare in strength to that of a copper fastening in red cedar every six inches, or six inches of plastic?
A kid I taught how to weld and build boats, went to welding school and got every ticked he needed. He said "Boy ,when it comes to embellishing their importance, welders are sure full of it."
Or as my next replacement says "You are not building a nuclear submarine."
You should s check out the origamiboats site, or my book or Alex's video to see how we have made overhead lifts redundant, by our building methods. Innovation does the trick.They would save maybe an hour or two at most, in building an origami boat.
80 ft overhead clearance would only be useful if you planed to put a 70 ft mast up in the shop. How often is that done?
I , Roberts, Dix, Tanton, Van de Stadt, Shannon and many others have designed very successful boats, without transverse frames, for decades, none of which have suffered any consequences for not having frames, and which has proven transverse frames irrelevant in a boat under 41 feet.
So would it be wise to believe the statements that we are all wrong, by someone who has never built or cruised extensively in a small steel sailboat?
This is the type of uninformed disinformation which needlessly discourages people from building their own small steel sailboats, and has them going to sea in boats which have far less chance of surviving a collision with Fukashima debris, sometimes resulting in boats going missing without a trace.

Well you certainly think a lot of your opinions, as I do my own. I have personally been in charge of transportation for a LOT of steel that went to shipyards to be used in the building of ships. Funny thing BS, a lot of it was rolled, or had been bent with a press brake. It is a good way to get nice straight lines in steel, something I am sure you know. Now as to why I want the building to have such a nice high clearance, I want to be able to rig the vessel inside in order to have it all ready once I am ready to move it. I would not leave it on there, I just would like to be able to get every bit of the rigging done indoors, all the stuff fitted and done correctly, then take it all down and transport it. I kind of doubt that it would be a bad idea to be able to do it, an even better one would be to have the building be located where you could launch the boat mast and all right into the ocean by using a nice travelling crane to walk it out and set it gently into the water, fully rigged and ready to test the engines and sails.

If you used a brake or roller to make some of the bends and shapes you would be able to get a lot more out of the steel than if you did not. The fact that you are braking the material when you pull it together does not mean that a method of braking it was not used, because it is either rolled or has a brake in it anywhere it is not flat. Facts is facts, and since even you are not trying to sail a flat piece of steel it had to get bent some way, I just thought I would prefer to do it a little ahead of time, and not as I was trying to make the hull joints. In fact in light steel like the kind you use I would think the brake would give some rigidity, like if you broke the two halves at the keel seam up to a 90 degree angle to make a flange to weld together there, now maybe you are using angle iron or something like that welded at the keel seam, but I think that if you ran it through a brake, or even a roller brake and put a 4 inch high 90 degree flange along the seam it would be easier to weld, and would have a really good structural load point there.

Maybe I am wrong, but I know the material would be much stronger and you would have the added benefit of that flange, which you could have to the inside or the outside whichever one makes the most sense to give you a structural reinforcement right there along the keel seam. If it were facing to the inside you could drill through it to mount things like the mast step, the engine mounts, and the other loads. If it faced outward it would act as a mini keel from stem to stern and you would have a centerline that you could use to anchor the keel on the cross section as well as the welds or bolts that you use from the bottom to the hull. If you wanted to do things like that to the design then you could, but of course you like to have it built in someone's backyard, take ten years to do it, and then have the poor original owner have to sell it and let someone else come in to finish it.

It is good to learn from your mistakes, but much better to learn from the mistakes of others...
mark2gmtrans is offline  
post #334 of 5317 Old 07-31-2013
grumpy old man
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,116
Thanks: 1
Thanked 95 Times in 91 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Jon:
Trust me that every component of this design has been chosen for it's suitability with the build and purpose of this first class yacht. We are very comfortable in our choices.

As for the Swiftsure Race, thanks for saying that but my client does not want pulpits or lifelines so we would not qualify for the Swiftsure. We will have to contend ourselves sailing around the Sound beating up on anything we can find. I pushed for lifelines but lost that argument. I know the boat will look better without them but,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Bob's Blog ....

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Please also visit my new web site
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by bobperry; 07-31-2013 at 07:10 PM.
bobperry is offline  
post #335 of 5317 Old 08-01-2013
grumpy old man
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,116
Thanks: 1
Thanked 95 Times in 91 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

It just gets beautifuller and beautifuller. I can't help it. I'm good. I have worked hard all my life to be good at this. When I make myself happy then I know I have hit a home run.
Attached Thumbnails
White hull 1.jpg   White hull 2.jpg  

Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Bob's Blog ....

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Please also visit my new web site
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bobperry is offline  
post #336 of 5317 Old 08-01-2013
Senior Member
 
bljones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: South Coast Ontario
Posts: 8,469
Thanks: 35
Thanked 90 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 8
   
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2gmtrans View Post
I have personally been in charge of transportation for a LOT of steel that went to shipyards to be used in the building of ships.
So, that qualifies you to discuss construction....how?
BS and i may disagree on many things but no one can deny that he has designs on the water, and has built a boat or two. Hydrodynamics and aesthetics and personality aside, he has been there and done that..
you, on the other hand?
watched a truck being loaded, apparently.

It's 5 o'clock somewhere:


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by bljones; 08-01-2013 at 01:23 AM.
bljones is offline  
post #337 of 5317 Old 08-01-2013
Picnic Sailor
 
chall03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,751
Thanks: 23
Thanked 26 Times in 22 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
I sincerely apologise to Bobs wife, for involving someone who is not involved in any way. After Bobs very personal insults to me and my work, I guess I didn't see the part where he and others are allowed to insult anyone they please with impunity, and their targets are nor allowed to respond in kind. I had no business involving an inocent third party. If you go back you will find my responses are just that, responses to personal insults, first hurled at me.
As far as apologies go that one sucked.

'Life is either a daring adventure or nothing' - Helen Keller



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
chall03 is offline  
post #338 of 5317 Old 08-01-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Brazil
Posts: 982
Thanks: 3
Thanked 24 Times in 23 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
It just gets beautifuller and beautifuller. I can't help it. I'm good. I have worked hard all my life to be good at this. When I make myself happy then I know I have hit a home run.
Bob, you most certainly have the "eye"!!! Beautiful lines!

Vindö 50
copacabana is offline  
post #339 of 5317 Old 08-01-2013
grumpy old man
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,116
Thanks: 1
Thanked 95 Times in 91 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Thanks Copa. It has been a very enjoyable project.

Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Bob's Blog ....

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Please also visit my new web site
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bobperry is offline  
post #340 of 5317 Old 08-01-2013
Moderator
 
Jeff_H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
Posts: 6,838
Thanks: 5
Thanked 137 Times in 110 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
It just gets beautifuller and beautifuller. I can't help it. I'm good. I have worked hard all my life to be good at this. When I make myself happy then I know I have hit a home run.
There are woman and boats that need all kinds of war paint to look as good as they can, but there are the few-and-far-between whose beauty is so natural and compelling that there is no need to try to improve it with camouflage. Seeing every inch painted just plain white, emphasizes that this is one of those few-and-far-between. Nice work Bob.....


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Curmudgeon at Large- and rhinestone in the rough, sailing my Farr 11.6 on the Chesapeake Bay
Jeff_H is offline  
Closed Thread

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
C & C 24 pros and cons chuckg Boat Review and Purchase Forum 13 05-20-2015 12:05 AM
Hunter 36 Pros and Cons? turfguy Hunter 15 08-25-2014 05:08 PM
Pros and Cons of Catalina 350?? turfguy C350 6 10-16-2009 05:17 PM
Watermakers—Pros and Cons Tom Wood Cruising Articles 0 06-11-2002 08:00 PM
Steel Hulls—Pros and Cons Sue & Larry Buying a Boat Articles 0 09-12-2001 08:00 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome