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  #3401  
Old 01-27-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Well Brent, there you go making things up again. You have a very short memory. Yes, I did desdign the Reliance. I met one owner several times at the Perry Rendezvous but he took off to go cruising and I have not seen him back. He loved his boat.

We have been through all this before. Brent, put down the bottle! It's killing your memory.

So once again you have your facts all wrong. (What a surprise)
But keep on calling people names. You are very good at that. In fact you can hardly post without calling someone a name.

I'm proud of my work and I post proof that my boats are doing the job and looking good while doing it. You on the other hand are all talk and most of that is just plain wrong. I really don't care about your "solid rail" lifelines. My clients do not want them. And to try to generalize the intellect of my clients is really assinine. But you are good at that too.

By the way, you are going to run out of "rat's asses" soon.
If picking on life line height is the best you can do you are running out of arguments.

You can't do this. You don't have the skills. Never will.

I can post pics of my boats all night but I have to run to the dojo and get beat up tonight. Paul and Lorrie love their boat.
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Last edited by bobperry; 01-27-2014 at 09:14 PM.
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Old 01-27-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
I just had another read thru Smack's long diatribe. Hell hath no confusion like a dyslexic on a forum!
Who gives a rats ass about a bit of paint on welded on stainless handrails ? Why would a free cruiser give a rats ass about an armchair critic, who knows little about cruising boat priorities? Some one dense enough to believe the blocks in the photos are not as strong as the commercially made ,plastic decorative priority blocks he advocates , someone dense enough to believe that the 3/16tgh shackles on a commercially made blocks are stronger than the 3/8th inch shackle or the1 1/4 inch wide by 3/16th aluminium becket on the one in the photo?
As someone pointed out on another site, Smack would be able to sabotage any test he did on anything, and given his basic dishonesty, (quotes constantly being taken out of context, words added ,left out, etc) it would be inevitable!
Vendi globe boats have twin rudders huge difference.
The weakness and distortion of Smacks arguments is demonstrated by the way he has to keep harping on about a typo.
He claims that lifelines must be 36 inches high , but his hero, Bob's Passport 47 has 31 inch lifelines. Some of Bob's boats have 24 inch lifelines. No solid top rails like mine , only trip wires.
Bob claims not to have designed the Reliance 37? That's was the name on Malcolm's drawings . I guess denial is one way to avoid responsibility. It worked, for some people, on the aluminium boat too. Appears to be a pattern forming!

Smack is implying that plastic thru hulls are stronger , unlike the fully welded in sch 40 stainless pipe nipples I use!
Without ever having seen one of my boats, Smack claims that most of the ones he has seen are for sale. Dyslexia again?
I can count on one hand the boats of my design which have come up for sale in the last ten years . Some are constantly being harassed by people wanting to by their brentboats which are not for sale .
You still haven't explained how you get a ball of kelp or a fishnet off a spade rudder in rough water at sea at night. Mine slide right over them without fouling anything .That is a far safer and thus stronger arrangement for a cruising boat.
Smack claims that a white poly pipe would not be in any worse shape after 36 years in the sun? So much for his credibility!
Scrap stainless for a wind vane would not cost anyone else any more than it did me.
Smack confuses the life expectancy of halyards with that of sheets . Sheets are not halyards. Ask someone who has a clue about sailing, to explain the difference to you ,Smack.
I first hit a Fijian Reef in my cement boat and lost her in conditions which would not have even damaged a steel boat. Viski hit while leaving Suva on her circumnavigation, with minimal damage, mostly lost paint .Wong never hit a Fijian reef . Your dyslexia is acting up again. Smack.
Wong hit in the Balerics and in Panama .

Wong is a far bigger boat than mine, or a36. I have no idea how he painted her initially . I was in Mexico at the time.
I estimate that over 905% of the boats built to my designs are sailing g within a short time . A Texan from Hicksville Texas claims to know more about the subject, without ever having seen one of my boats, than I do. Who do you believe ? Check out the photos section on the origamiboats site for more info.
Wont look because you don't want to see the answer? Your problem!
With the aging population and the aging of old boats with perfectly good gear we are awash in sailing gear, in excellent conditions, and the supply is growing daily . Boats are being ground up for concrete reinforcement . Any one can find good deals on gear
This post of yours is getting longer and longer.

Remember dude - they are all your words. Not mine.


And longer...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
I just had another read thru Smack's long diatribe. Hell hath no confusion like a dyslexic on a forum!
Who gives a rats ass about a bit of paint on welded on stainless handrails ? Why would a free cruiser give a rats ass about an armchair critic, who knows little about cruising boat priorities? Some one dense enough to believe the blocks in the photos are not as strong as the commercially made ,plastic decorative priority blocks he advocates , someone dense enough to believe that the 3/16tgh shackles on a commercially made blocks are stronger than the 3/8th inch shackle or the1 1/4 inch wide by 3/16th aluminium becket on the one in the photo?
As someone pointed out on another site, Smack would be able to sabotage any test he did on anything, and given his basic dishonesty, (quotes constantly being taken out of context, words added ,left out, etc) it would be inevitable!
Vendi globe boats have twin rudders huge difference.
The weakness and distortion of Smacks arguments is demonstrated by the way he has to keep harping on about a typo.
He claims that lifelines must be 36 inches high , but his hero, Bob's Passport 47 has 31 inch lifelines. Some of Bob's boats have 24 inch lifelines. No solid top rails like mine , only trip wires.
Bob claims not to have designed the Reliance 37? That's was the name on Malcolm's drawings . I guess denial is one way to avoid responsibility. It worked, for some people, on the aluminium boat too. Appears to be a pattern forming!

Smack is implying that plastic thru hulls are stronger , unlike the fully welded in sch 40 stainless pipe nipples I use!
Without ever having seen one of my boats, Smack claims that most of the ones he has seen are for sale. Dyslexia again?
I can count on one hand the boats of my design which have come up for sale in the last ten years . Some are constantly being harassed by people wanting to by their brentboats which are not for sale .
You still haven't explained how you get a ball of kelp or a fishnet off a spade rudder in rough water at sea at night. Mine slide right over them without fouling anything .That is a far safer and thus stronger arrangement for a cruising boat.
Smack claims that a white poly pipe would not be in any worse shape after 36 years in the sun? So much for his credibility!
Scrap stainless for a wind vane would not cost anyone else any more than it did me.
Smack confuses the life expectancy of halyards with that of sheets . Sheets are not halyards. Ask someone who has a clue about sailing, to explain the difference to you ,Smack.
I first hit a Fijian Reef in my cement boat and lost her in conditions which would not have even damaged a steel boat. Viski hit while leaving Suva on her circumnavigation, with minimal damage, mostly lost paint .Wong never hit a Fijian reef . Your dyslexia is acting up again. Smack.
Wong hit in the Balerics and in Panama .

Wong is a far bigger boat than mine, or a36. I have no idea how he painted her initially . I was in Mexico at the time.
I estimate that over 905% of the boats built to my designs are sailing g within a short time . A Texan from Hicksville Texas claims to know more about the subject, without ever having seen one of my boats, than I do. Who do you believe ? Check out the photos section on the origamiboats site for more info.
Wont look because you don't want to see the answer? Your problem!
With the aging population and the aging of old boats with perfectly good gear we are awash in sailing gear, in excellent conditions, and the supply is growing daily . Boats are being ground up for concrete reinforcement . Any one can find good deals on gear.

Plans for my 36 are $350 . Smack calculates the cost of plans , book and DVD at $425. Winston did that, and got sailing for around $35,000.
For that, his hero Bob Perry, will sell you a set of plans . Then, instead of a boat in sailing condition, ready to live aboard, you have a pile of paper, advice on how to put together a steel boat ,by someone who has never done it himself , decisions on what is right for a steel cruising boat, from someone who has never cruised extensively in a steel boat, who has stated that he just draws his pictures which ever way his whims take him , not giving a rat's ass how expensive an difficult it is to build.

Smack says, then you have plans from one of the worlds most prominant designers . You forgot one important part. He is no doubt one of the worlds best "PLASTIC" boat designers, without a doubt. He knows next to nothing about steel , having almost zero hands on experience in working with the material, building with ,or maintaining it.
Having the world's best PLASTIC boat designer, with almost zero knowledge about steel, design a steel boat, is like having the worlds best hockey player do your open heart surgery, as he is recognized around the world as being one of the best!
No, Wayne Gretsky ,you are not getting your slapshot anywhere near my ticker!
The ship which hit the Sleavins boat had the bluntest bow I have ever seen on a freighter. Trying to get that to punch a hole in 3/16th steel plate would be like trying to get it to punch a hole in a floating beer can .Is anyone dense enough to believe a floating beer can would be holed by that bow? The inertia in the beer can is simply not enough. Ditto a 36 ft hull with 3/16th plate.
The comment about wooden guns was a reaction to the ludicrous claim that wood is stronger than steel. Again,
Smack left out the context to distort the quote. Another reason to not believe anything he posts .

Early on in this debate Bob started spiting out Karate terms. Karate is a good metaphor for something being theorized into complete uselessness. I wasted a couple of years on that crap in my early 20's before I switched to boxing, which was far more connected to reality. I remember my trainer, a former world kick boxing champion giving a kid a few lessons for a Taequando tournament . 20 years later I watched a guy with only six weeks boxing training , kick his ass easily.

Wile 30 year old prices are not the same , the gap between steel and fibreglass prices are even wider.
This quote though is freakin' awesome: "No, Wayne Gretsky ,you are not getting your slapshot anywhere near my ticker!"

I'm definitely gonna use that one.
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 01-27-2014 at 09:43 PM.
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  #3403  
Old 01-27-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Oh, all right.
I hate to interupt BS's war of words with an actual boat but here'' one I did 20 years ago. It's 70' LOA and about 24,000 lbs. and as sweet and docile a cruising boat as you would ever find. It's also very fast. When it was new and we had her all tuned up we would go to weather at 9.3 knots. Bringing MERIDIAN up to Canada I passed trawler yachts all day.


I don't recall what the lifeline height is but no one has died yet.
I think you will have to admit that this is a very handsome yacht. The new owners love it.
Here it is just after being refitted with Leisure Furl boom system.
My wife and I took the boat out for a weekend. We sailed it just fine, runners and all but we had a hell of a time furling the main onto the boom when we were done. Good memories.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Well Brent, there you go making things up again. You have a very short memory. Yes, I did desdign the Reliance. I met one owner several times at the Perry Rendezvous but he took off to go cruising and I have not seen him back. He loved his boat.
Bob, was it a Reliance 37? If it was, this one's my fault. Brent also said you'd designed an aluminum boat here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Last time I left Tonga at the same time as a 28 ft aluminiun Bob Perry design. I took 57 days to BC, he took 99 days. You wouldn't do much better in any heavily loaded 31 footer, with all that the owner owns aboard.
That was what I was thinking about in terms of the fairy boat Brent made up - I just thought the Reliance 37 was yet another as I'd listed.

So, I'll go back and correct that one entry in the BSYMP thread - clarifying that he's lying about the owner's comments - not the boat.

I have no problem making such corrections. It's important that it's accurate.
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  #3405  
Old 01-27-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
No. He certainly can explain better but he was talking about two boats with the same displacement, an heavy one and a light one and that means that the light one to have the same displacement has to be considerably bigger.

Regarding two boats of the same length and beam, one heavy and other lighter, assuming that both are well designed it does not work the same way.

The heavier one will have a lot more ballast (assuming that both have similar keels and the same ballast ratio) and if you are correct in saying that the lighter boat can take more weight without sinking it is also true that the same weight will have a bigger influence in raising the boat CG making it more unstable at considerable angles of heel diminishing in much the AVS.

In short, the load will represent a much bigger proportion regarding the ballast of the lighter boat than to the ballast of the heavier one. If the load is excessive, even if properly stored it will only increase stability at smaller angles of heel making the boat dangerous if by any reason it heels considerably.

That's why each NA gives for each boat a max load one that will allow it to have a non dangerous AVS.

Regards

Paulo
Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
The only factor which affects how a boat will sink from adding weight (stores, gear etc.) is the Pounds Per Inch Immersion. It is dependent on the waterplane area, not the displacement of the boat. A heavy steel boat and a lightweight cored boat, each with 1500 Lbs per inch immersion will both sink at the same rate from additional weight being added.
Boy, I did one hell of a job screwing that up! Ha Ha!
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Still thought due to the weight of steel small (<50') all steel boats will have more difficulty maintaining good stability regardless of measuring tool. Thought that was one of the main reasons for hybrids with steel hulls and aluminum decks/ houses.
Similarly thought any device to decrease weight aloft was justified by improvement in "stiffness" justifying carbon masts and synthetics of standing rigging instead of rod or one by 19.
Can't see how BS boats could sail decently. Can't get a PHRF or other number on BS boats. Wonder how they would do against a mini. Increased wetted surface from wide,long tandem keels. Iron stick. Small sail plan not utilizing any of the sailmaking advance of recent decades. Looking at the shape would think getting to 45 true is a wish. Would love to see a certified sailing polar or any independent measure of performance other than a story. Know there are some good performers in steel. Just think BS boats are not on t.hat list.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Francis Lee looks great, Bob..

Congratulations!

Will be at CSR on Saturday for a boat delivery.. Will she still be there?
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Old 01-28-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

David:
Many thanks.

Frankie will be a CSR for at least a couple of weeks. We don't have a real tiller yet. The engine is not hooked up. I' still pissing and moaning about the lack of a cove stripe. There is plenty yet to do.

Yoiu have time.

Dean:
You made what is one of the most common mistakes regarding the physics of loading a boat. Now you can correct the next guy that tells you a heavy boat can take a load better than a light boat. It's all about waterplane. But the caveat is that a light boat will be pressed to find room for all the etra gear while the heavy boat will have more voume for it.

Out:
You are forgetting the BS post where he claims two of his 36'ers sailed through the San Diego racing fleet and left them behind.
All I can figure is that they must have been going the opposite direction. BS boats have to be dog slow. I'm sure BS will come back with some BS for days runs but he can make up any numbers he likes. It's all BS to me.
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Last edited by bobperry; 01-28-2014 at 12:04 AM.
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  #3409  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Can't see how BS boats could sail decently. Can't get a PHRF or other number on BS boats.
I'm sure it's a very strong number. Like in the thousands.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Its not just steel anymore!! 4 out of 5 wannabe cruisers recomend it, Tastes great and less filling.
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