Pros and cons of steel sailboats - Page 345 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree1688Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #3441  
Old 01-28-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 2,331
Thanks: 19
Thanked 32 Times in 31 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Brent Swain is on a distinguished road
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Well Brent, there you go making things up again. You have a very short memory. Yes, I did desdign the Reliance. I met one owner several times at the Perry Rendezvous but he took off to go cruising and I have not seen him back. He loved his boat.

We have been through all this before. Brent, put down the bottle! It's killing your memory.

So once again you have your facts all wrong. (What a surprise)
But keep on calling people names. You are very good at that. In fact you can hardly post without calling someone a name.

I'm proud of my work and I post proof that my boats are doing the job and looking good while doing it. You on the other hand are all talk and most of that is just plain wrong. I really don't care about your "solid rail" lifelines. My clients do not want them. And to try to generalize the intellect of my clients is really assinine. But you are good at that too.

By the way, you are going to run out of "rat's asses" soon.
If picking on life line height is the best you can do you are running out of arguments.

You can't do this. You don't have the skills. Never will.

I can post pics of my boats all night but I have to run to the dojo and get beat up tonight. Paul and Lorrie love their boat.
According to Smack, you are lying when you claim to have designed the Reliance. So where does that leave his credibility?
Malcolm gave up on the Reliance many years ago, and started building Spencers, which he told me are far better boats, with far better directional stability. That was over 13 years ago.
__________________
Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3442  
Old 01-28-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 2,331
Thanks: 19
Thanked 32 Times in 31 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Brent Swain is on a distinguished road
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Brent given your posts and your consistant BS here you are not exactly the King of Credibility.
After being humiliated for years on the BD forum you still have learned the basics of design.
My favorite quote from the Boat Design forum:
"Your boats are extremely ugly and an insult to steel boats in general - geez, that ugly slit and corner at the bottom:eek"

I have yet to see you post one of your own drawings.


On it's lines, looking good and making the owner happy. Asymeytrical daggerboards. My only cruising cat.
Bob you have designed some extremely beautiful boats, and some extremely ugly ones as well. The Tayana 37 looks so much like a dumpy bathtub, that I have heard that one off Nanaimo was constantly being mistaken for one of the bath tubs in the race. Her stern looks like a fat lady's ass, not the definition of attractive.
__________________
Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3443  
Old 01-28-2014
grumpy old man
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,588
Thanks: 1
Thanked 72 Times in 68 Posts
Rep Power: 4
bobperry will become famous soon enough
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Dendo:
I'll have you know those are marine grade 2 by 4's on the tiller.

Brent:
See, there you go again making silly comments about a boat that you know nothing about and a process you know nothing about. This is not about you. My client, Kim, is getting exactly what he wanted. Not want you want. He really doesn't care about what you want. And, if I may speak for him, if he sees what you want, believe me, he's not going to want it. Your boats would scare Kim. Kim has owned a long list of beautiful yachts including the amazing K. AAge Nielsen design TIOGA . Your boats I am confident are not what he imagines in terms of aesthetics. So you may want to reconsider the custom design process and what it is aimed at accomplishing before you offer up any more suggestions. There is nothing I see in your work, as noble as it is, that has any implications on my work.
__________________
Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Bob's Blog ....

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Please also visit my new web site
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3444  
Old 01-28-2014
grumpy old man
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,588
Thanks: 1
Thanked 72 Times in 68 Posts
Rep Power: 4
bobperry will become famous soon enough
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

"Bob you have designed some extremely beautiful boats, and some extremely ugly ones as well. The Tayana 37 looks so much like a dumpy bathtub, that I have heard that one off Nanaimo was constantly being mistaken for one of the bath tubs in the race. Her stern looks like a fat lady's ass, not the definition of attractive. "

Brent, when you say stuff like this you come off as a very small man. Is this the best defence you can offer? It is meaningless drivel.

Post some drawings BS. Show us what you can do.
__________________
Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Bob's Blog ....

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Please also visit my new web site
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3445  
Old 01-28-2014
smackdaddy's Avatar
Last Man Standing
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 13,021
Thanks: 82
Thanked 75 Times in 69 Posts
Rep Power: 9
smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Bob you have designed some extremely beautiful boats, and some extremely ugly ones as well. The Tayana 37 looks so much like a dumpy bathtub, that I have heard that one off Nanaimo was constantly being mistaken for one of the bath tubs in the race. Her stern looks like a fat lady's ass, not the definition of attractive.
I really do love this guy. He is seriously funny.

bobperry likes this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3446  
Old 01-28-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 272
Thanks: 1
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 4
jak3b is on a distinguished road
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Come on Brent post that pic you are so proud of, The Fleets of your designs at Cabo,I am dying to see it, show these guys you are not just a pathetic, nasty little gobshyte.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3447  
Old 01-28-2014
djodenda's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kirkland, Washington
Posts: 1,571
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 10
djodenda will become famous soon enough djodenda will become famous soon enough
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Hey... I just discovered a cool link:

Airloom - Home



She's a very well sailed Baba 40 that is well known in racing circles in the PNW.

A stout boat, and quite fast.. I was aboard briefly last fall.. couldn't believe how thick the shrouds were.

Nice people.

Nice boat.

One of Bob's
smackdaddy likes this.
__________________
David

1987 CS 36 Merlin "Kyrie"

"They drove a dump truck full of money up to my house. I'm not made of stone!" -Krusty the Clown

Last edited by djodenda; 01-28-2014 at 06:32 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3448  
Old 01-28-2014
Dean101's Avatar
Life is a wild ride!
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 394
Thanks: 6
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 4
Dean101 is on a distinguished road
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I know, right!?! And I didn't even have to actually claim I know more about building steel boats than Brent! He must have great confidence that I do though, because his imagination is the only place you will find that I actually claimed that. Thanks Brent! And thanks for actually admitting there is a learning curve to this. I seriously doubt that any of your amateur clients have the skills to quickly and efficiently build a boat it's taken 30 years to perfect.

I do actually have a suggestion for you and I'm being serious about this. The next time you build one of your boats, take pictures and keep a log of timeframes, expenditures, and the use of outside skilled labor. With that sort of data available, it will entice more people to buy your books and DVD's. It will also give you some credibility on forums such as this. More so than your lovely attitude does.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3449  
Old 01-28-2014
Jeff_H's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
Posts: 6,564
Thanks: 5
Thanked 92 Times in 69 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
This makes my point exactly. Kasten claims the method CANT be used for keel ,skeg, rudder, decks, cabin, etc. while I on the origami site, in my book and in Alex's video, you can see the keels, rudder, cabin, decks, wheelhouse etc. , being built using origami methods, something we have been doing since hull number one, back in 1979 . Anyone reading this site can confirm that, by checking the photos on the origami boats site. Kasten has been told this, and has full access to the origami boats site, yet continues to spread the bull, and disinformation. So how can anyone believe anything else he has to say on the subject? He stubbornly refuses to educate himself on the subject, while spreading bull, not the kind of guy one should rely on for any steel boat building information.
Brent,

I think your disagreement with Kasten is largely semantics. As I was reading Kasten's piece, Kasten seems to be defining folded plate construction differently than Origami in that he saw Origami as implying that the entire hull shape was formed from plates that were partially attached and that the hull gained its form solely from the shape of the edges of gores. Using his definitions, when I look at the photos of your boats, it appears that the keels are constructed using what he terms folded plate construction in which the plates are shaped around the keel bottom and tank bulheads rather than as would be the case in his def of Origami where the shapes are formed solely by the shape of the edges of the plate.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
The weight of the 1/8th inch plate on my decks cabinsides and cabin top are exactly the same as the weight of the same thickness on a Dix design, or a Whithotz, or a Roberts, or a Tanton, or a Colvin or a Van de Stadt, etc. etc. They don't have a secret source of lighter per sq ft steel!
I cannot speak for the other designers, but at least the designs of Charlie Wittholz that I worked on for Charlie did not have steel decks. Charlie preferred wood decks and houses since they were lighter in weight. He would detail the stanchions so that they were hung on the bulkwarks to avoid leaks. But otherwise his boats were designed with glass over wood decks. Charlie's topsides were generally 1/8" plate on boats the size of yours but his boats had a lot more framing.

Thank you for the correction on your mast material. I did not realize that you were not using structural sections for your masts. To set the record straight from my comments yesterday, 6" diameter x 11 ga. ERW tubing varies in weight from manufacturer to manufacturer but generally weighs around 7.5 to 8.2 lbs per foot. The trapped air would provide 11.4 lbs of buoyancy per foot so if the mast did not fail there would be 3-4 lbs of buoyancy per foot. Just for comparason a 7" dia x 1/8" wall aluminum tube has similar I*E and S*F properties and would weigh around 3.25 Lbs, but would require a 1" larger diameter and thicker walls to equal the 6" dia x 11ga steel.

Jeff
smackdaddy likes this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Curmudgeon at Large- and rhinestone in the rough, sailing my Farr 11.6 on the Chesapeake Bay and part-time purveyor of marine supplies

Last edited by Jeff_H; 01-28-2014 at 06:48 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3450  
Old 01-28-2014
grumpy old man
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,588
Thanks: 1
Thanked 72 Times in 68 Posts
Rep Power: 4
bobperry will become famous soon enough
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Denda:
That is indeed AIRLOOM the tall rigged Baba 40 that has done very well racing in the PNW. I also did one Vic-Maui. I did three tall rigged Baba 40's. I added 6' to "I". The boat came alive with the extra rig. It was like shaking a reef out. The Baba 40 is a beautifully balanced boat that loves a breeze. I also find it quite attractive.

Compared to this BS has zero to offer. Apparently. Maybe more angry words.
__________________
Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Bob's Blog ....

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Please also visit my new web site
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 members and 2 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hunter 36 Pros and Cons? turfguy Hunter 15 4 Days Ago 05:08 PM
C & C 24 pros and cons chuckg Boat Review and Purchase Forum 11 04-06-2012 12:45 AM
Pros and Cons of Catalina 350?? turfguy C350 6 10-16-2009 05:17 PM
Watermakers—Pros and Cons Tom Wood Cruising Articles 0 06-11-2002 08:00 PM
Steel Hulls—Pros and Cons Sue & Larry Buying a Boat Articles 0 09-12-2001 08:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:38 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.