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post #3631 of 5317 Old 02-03-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Jak:
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post #3632 of 5317 Old 02-03-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Got it,.....Wow;-)
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post #3633 of 5317 Old 02-03-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Out:
I agree. There seems to be a pervading lack of confidence in metals boats. This is partly due, I think, to lack of knowledge on the buyer's part and where steel is concerned the general ( not Waterline) crude nature of the boats. If the buyer has come into sailing thru the Catalina, Beneteau type avenue he is most probably not going to be interested in a BS type boat. GRP is so stable a material . I think alu scares people.

Jak:
I thought you would like that. Somebody has a lot of money!

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post #3634 of 5317 Old 02-03-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by MikeJohns View Post
Metal boats are designed to the metals fatigue strength which is considerably lower than the metals ultimate strength. That gives a huge factor of safety for the odd encounter with the things you really don't want to encounter I think that's real insurance.

Like this whale collision with a difference off Cape Town from memory. Any of the lightweight composite would have had their hulls seriously 'compromised' by a lively whale broaching right onto the boat. It dismasted this steel sailboat but didn't effect the hull and they made it back to the marina.

Yet another sailboat hit beam on by a ship posted here: Pros and cons of steel boats

Although it's a pretty rare event it speaks volumes about the real benefit of steel (and alloy) which is the reserve strength of metal boats.
With Aluminium alloy hulls you can have both lightweight and a large reserve strength.
While I completely agree with your post, I would point out the implication in the phrase "lightweight composite". Often these types of discussions compare a typical steel boat, to a typical production fiberglass boat, and in that comparison the composite boat would clearly not withstand the impact in question.

But it should be pointed out, that if the primary concern is about impact resistance, in a comparison to an equal weight, properly engineered composite or sheathed cold molded wooden boat of the same weight, the composite or CM wood boat would have a much higher impact resistance than the steel boat.

Respectfully,
Jeff


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post #3635 of 5317 Old 02-03-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Right Jeff but who in their right mind would build a composite boat to the same shell weight as a steel boat? But I see your point.

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post #3636 of 5317 Old 02-03-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
But it should be pointed out, that if the primary concern is about impact resistance, in a comparison to an equal weight, properly engineered composite or sheathed cold molded wooden boat of the same weight, the composite or CM wood boat would have a much higher impact resistance than the steel boat.

Respectfully,
Jeff
Easy Jeff. You're going to confuse Brent again. You know he'll come back with..

Quote:
"And Jeff calls me a llama then goes on to say that composite boats have to be so thick that the weight equals steel before it can withstand Fukushima Debris! Ya sure! Or that the steel on a boat has to be so thin that it weighs the same as carbon fiber or fir to make the test fair! Ya sure! What do you think of Jeff's credibility now?

A friend from Cabo once asked me to prove how tough my boat was. So I hit it with a sledgehammer at the waterline. It dented the hell out of my hull but it didn't sink it. Then I walked over to a Robert Perry design sitting in her slip at the dock and I hit it with the sledge hammer at the waterline. There were immediately a few cracks in the gelcoat!!! So I hit it like 200 more times, then had my friend hit it for another couple of hours in exactly the same place and we finally sunk that flimsy thing. My friend was impressed with my boat - until he realized it was his boat we just sunk. What do you think of Perry's credibility now?"
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post #3637 of 5317 Old 02-03-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Right Jeff but who in their right mind would build a composite boat to the same shell weight as a steel boat? But I see your point.
Some one whose main concern in life is about having their boat damaged by Fukashima debris? As you know better than I, if someone's main concern is about hitting something immovable, or being hit by something that is unstoppable, from an engineering point of view, properly engineered composite or sheathed cold molded hull with an equal stopping power would be lighter than an equal strength steel hull, or by the same token, if, of equal weight, the properly engineered composite or sheathed cold molded hull would be considerably stronger in impact than the steel hull.

Jeff


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post #3638 of 5317 Old 02-03-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I don't give a Fukashima. We've had some 13' tides in the last few days and my bay is litterred with logs. I have enough debris without Fukashima. Some of the logs are 50' long and over 24" in dia.

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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
I don't give a Fukashima. We've had some 13' tides in the last few days and my bay is litterred with logs. I have enough debris without Fukashima. Some of the logs are 50' long and over 24" in dia.
Gosh- Logs that are 50' long and over 24" in dia. Free lumber. Its like Brent said, there is no cheaper way to build a boat than using salvaged materials. I smell a wooden boat in the offing.
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post #3640 of 5317 Old 02-03-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

One of those floating vertically with only a few inches showing above the surface (deadhead) will give any Fukushima debris a run for its money.
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I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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