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  #3671  
Old 02-12-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

On the last boat I built, I used a new idea for putting the bulkhead tabs in. I strung a piece of rigging wire from the waterline at the bow to the waterline at the stern tightened with a comealong . I measured the locations of the bulkheads along this wire and marked those points with masking tape. Then I taped a laser pointer to a square with masking tape , and with the laser at 90 degrees to the square, held lightly to the rigging wire at the marked points, I pointed out all the tab positions, and had a friend mark them on the hull. It was incredibly quick and simple, and extremely accurate. This could be easily used on any hull, made of any material .
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  #3672  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Thanks for the thought Brent but I'm totally delighted with my boat . She is a treasure and I hope t sail her for many years on the oceans of the world. And as Bob has said your potential clients are a different breed. What I was trying to point out is at least in North America the yards that made steel boats have long since closed or are now constructing in Aluminum. The designs available in steel for yacht (not boat)construction below ~60' are quite limited as very few N.A.s are actively designing in steel. Even new boat designs in steel are unusual. I did a brief internet search which was negative. As you point out your designs are quite old and do not make use of design advances of the last several decades. Given new designs in aluminum still are drawn and executed in response to this shift in the market new construction both in North America and Europe in metal seems to be nearly exclusively in aluminum.
Outside your small group given the strength, ease, resale value and myriad new and traditional designs in tortured wood, cold molded, strip plank, and aluminum I am unaware of any new construction in steel even for the home builder in the size of your designs.
Could you please educate us to the total number of boats built to your designs? Could you please list the boats built to your designs in the last five years? If documented name and home port to confirm their existence?
Unfortunately unless you can do so it will be evident to all readers that what limited success you've had is now of historical interest only.
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  #3673  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post


Ouch. Just more evidence of what we've been saying all along. Judging by this line in the advert:

"You can build your dream boat from this hull shell in short period of time."

It's gotta be a BS Yacht. Does ANYONE really believe this crap anymore?
Takes me 2 days to get a hull to that point. It takes 8 hours to put all the decks on. $9K for all the shell materials. Hose the dirt off, and that is one extremely fair hull. Can that be accomplished by a home builder, in that time frame, for that cost, using any other material or building method? Sure, a first time builder will take longer, but nowhere near as long as it would take him using any other method or material . What does it cost in materials to get a bare fibreglass hull together? Many times that! Ditto labour!

If you look at the mud on that hull, you will realize that that hull has been together for only a couple of days at the most. The rain hasn't had time to wash the ground mud off, which looks still damp, and the green grass suggests it is not a dry climate area. The primer looks brand new, no sign of rust anywhere. Even a first time builder would take no more than a few days to get a hull to that stage. What Smack is saying is "Five days building, and you are not painted and sailing yet?"
Does Smack ( who knows nothing about steel boat building) actually believe we are to dense to see this , or is Smack simply that dense himself? Remember, he is the guy who said it takes tens of thousands of dollars to buy the small supply of tools needed to build a hull like this. There are plenty of home built steel boats around. Ask any one of their builders how many tens of thousands of dollars worth of tools it took , and use that as a measure of Smacks credibility.
Great to see so many boats which I have not been aware of, being built. Proves my theory that the ones I am aware of is just the tip of the iceberg. Few have any further questions , my books and plans, and Alex's video, obviously giving them all the info they need.
A friends son, in Gibsons , bought a Valiant 40 for a song . I will soon have the price , as soon as get there. I'm currently storm bound, in a place where people who do things the other way, work year round in suburbia, just to spend a couple of weeks in.

" Fools and children should never be allowed to see a work of art incomplete! "

"Eliminating complexity is true genius"
Leonardo da Vinci
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Last edited by Brent Swain; 02-13-2014 at 08:44 PM.
  #3674  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Please answer the above questions Brent. Surely any design if mistreated and not maintained with lose its value. Even your boats if allow to degrade from absence of zincs or maintenance of paint integrity will be bought only for their value in scrap. Don't dance- please answer the above questions- we are all waiting with great expectation. Surely you have records so doing so should not be a hardship.(pun intended)
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  #3675  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Thanks for the thought Brent but I'm totally delighted with my boat . She is a treasure and I hope t sail her for many years on the oceans of the world. And as Bob has said your potential clients are a different breed. What I was trying to point out is at least in North America the yards that made steel boats have long since closed or are now constructing in Aluminum. The designs available in steel for yacht (not boat)construction below ~60' are quite limited as very few N.A.s are actively designing in steel. Even new boat designs in steel are unusual. I did a brief internet search which was negative. As you point out your designs are quite old and do not make use of design advances of the last several decades. Given new designs in aluminum still are drawn and executed in response to this shift in the market new construction both in North America and Europe in metal seems to be nearly exclusively in aluminum.
Outside your small group given the strength, ease, resale value and myriad new and traditional designs in tortured wood, cold molded, strip plank, and aluminum I am unaware of any new construction in steel even for the home builder in the size of your designs.
Could you please educate us to the total number of boats built to your designs? Could you please list the boats built to your designs in the last five years? If documented name and home port to confirm their existence?
Unfortunately unless you can do so it will be evident to all readers that what limited success you've had is now of historical interest only.
I have built 38, starting with my first design, a 29 footer named Simplicity, which I sailed to Tahiti and back in 77-78,then sold to Mike Ward who sailed her to Mexico, Hawaii and back to BC in 88-89. H elater built one of my 40 footers named Mishar which he sailed to New Zealand and back to BC. leaving in 99-. She is shown on the origamiboats site, along with my current 31 footer. My first steel boat was built traditionally ,over frames. My first origami boat was a 26 footer built in 1980. Then I built a 40 footer to a Brandlymeyer design ,named Fan Tan which is in False creek at the Co op marina . I built the first 36 , Mungo in 1981, then Quarante Dos , my first 31 which is in Olympia Wa. . Then Iron Butterfly, which was in the west Indies last count. Then Pearl Song , which was in Ganges harbour last I heard . Then Silver moon, currently in Alaska, then Eclectus ,last in SW England, then Ola Surerte ,in Sooke last I heard, then a 36 in Sidney then my current boat then Moon raven , in Courtenay, then Ullr, in New Zealand , then one in Campbell River, last seen in Squamish, then Shinola , last in Campbell river, Tagish in Royston, currently on a circumnavigation , probably in the west indies , then Silas Crosby, then there were the two I built in Cowichan Bay, Costa Vida and Mikes 36, which is in Fulford habour next to the govt dock, then Nordic, last seen in Guaymas, then one in Susalito, Currently in Hawaii, then one one in Frisco, then Exit, then one in Rochester Minesota, then Gords 40 in Richmond, then Victor's 36 in Combs ,then , hell I 'll have to check my list. Those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head. Evan has done a similar number, Suzie has built several, as has Ken Splett, Peter Dirst, etc. Haidan , Sarra and Shawn have just done a 36 near Campbell River in the last couple of months, John Olson did one or more in England .
I don't think you can disinvent a way to get a steel shell together in 1/10th the time it takes using outdated "imitation wooden boatbuilding "methods, with far better results. Once the cat is out of the bag ,I don't think everyone will reject such an obviously superior way of doing things, and go back to accepting grossly outdated and tedious boatbuilding methods. Some luddites no doubt will, but practical people are far more resourceful and intelligent than you give them credit for .
Friends cruising Mexico tell me they rarely see a cruising boat there which doesn't have a copy of my book aboard . Plans keep selling at the same rate they always have. Books ,plans, and Alex's video will be around a long time, as will my boats .
Aluminium has always been an option for my designs , but after over 3 decades ,I can still count on one hand the number which have been built in aluminium, and interest in doing so seems stuck in minimal at the moment . I see a lot of steel boats cruising , including new ones, but very few aluminium sailboats . The huge cost differential and the difficulty in finding effective antifouling which wont eat them, along with the difficulty, complexity and lack of reliability of welding aluminium, remain huge deterrents to aluminium as a practical choice for home builders, or any low cost, practical cruising boats.
This is the first internet access I have had for a week. Should have a lot more in the next couple of weeks. Till then ,its time to go fire up the stove .
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Last edited by Brent Swain; 02-13-2014 at 09:18 PM.
  #3676  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

hmmmmmmmm

Thought I heard a voice, but alas, did not. Continue to ignore thread!

All is well in here. Run along now, nothing to see or hear!

Marty
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  #3677  
Old 02-13-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Had lots of fun this week.
My clinet was at the Pacific Seacraft yard last week. A change was made to the companionway ladder for the forward cockpit. Thi ladder change presented a headroom conflict. A change was needed to the hatch. The yard mocked up their idea. I toild them it stunk and I'd get them something. I have now worked on this for two days with my pal Jody. I have three more small the
3D model I want to try before finalizing it. But here is where we are now.

Very hard to do a detail this elegant in Brent's style of steel boat building.

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Last edited by bobperry; 02-13-2014 at 06:57 AM.
  #3678  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Love the boom gallows and cute grab bars. ? How does that cockpit drain. Like what Carl did on mine . Two drains in front to tubes leading to sugar scoop above waterline and back open with a space even if weather boards put in. One of the few things I didn't like about my PSC was the time it took for the cockpit to drain a boarding sea. ? Did you put in 4 good sized drains to thru hulls?
Really like the hatches. Do some open forward and some aft so you can crack them a bit underway or on mooring with it raining?
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Last edited by outbound; 02-13-2014 at 09:00 AM.
  #3679  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Out:
We have four big cockpit drains running down through the engine room, one of the things you can easily do on a center cockpit.

We have hatches opening just as I have designed them to open. Now it remains to be seen how the builder installs them. But we have so many hatches and big opening ports that even if he doesn't follow my drawing we will be fine.

As for your PSC. I was never a fan of Crealock's design work. I think you made a gigantic step moving to the Schumacher design. I'm very sure you have figured that out.

Here are a couple photos taken last week. I think they show adequately that ventilation and light will not be an issue on this boat. I am a huge advocate of as many opening ports as reasonable. Note the wine stowage under the pilot berth.



Finishing details are traditional American styles. No Euro here. I do not want the interior to look like my dentist's office.
smackdaddy and jak3b like this.
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Last edited by bobperry; 02-13-2014 at 09:25 AM.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

The hull looks quite fair.
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