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  #3751  
Old 02-17-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Classic,

Is the Peterson 43 a flat deck model? if so, many of those versions from 40-43 that Peterson designed, came in both GRP and Aluminum.

That version at your club, might also be known as a Serindipity 43

Marty
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  #3752  
Old 02-17-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
Classic,

Is the Peterson 43 a flat deck model? if so, many of those versions from 40-43 that Peterson designed, came in both GRP and Aluminum.

That version at your club, might also be known as a Serindipity 43

Marty
Hi Marty, yep, it's the flat-deck model - in Aluminium - a yacht called 'Eneseay':



I crewed on her for a while before buying my current boat.

It had a hydraulic drive for the prop, which I also found interesting.
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  #3753  
Old 02-17-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Beautiful boat - I love those flush deck IOR boats.

From the days of "Hardware Wars" - more track than the Burlington Northern. It appears to only have 10 winches though - a bit skimpy for those days on anything bigger than a 1/2 Tonner.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Beautiful boat - I love those flush deck IOR boats.

From the days of "Hardware Wars" - more track than the Burlington Northern. It appears to only have 10 winches though - a bit skimpy for those days on anything bigger than a 1/2 Tonner.
It was bought primarily for a Sydney-Hobart long, long ago in which it came - well, nowhere in particular. It has runners, which, in typical IOR boat fashion, are an absolute ***** to work. The dip-pole spinnaker setup was another huge PITA for a non-athlete..

..and yep, there's a track for every headsail. Sometimes we'd even switch tracks during a headsail change which made life interesting. Yep, I was happy to leave that boat.


EDIT: Here's a MUCH, much, better IOR boat:



..none other than the amazing "Helsal II"... but that's getting way off topic.
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  #3755  
Old 02-17-2014
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François Lucas

I guess I was not clear. I was not talking about boats built in a shipyard but home built boats, literally on the backyard on a shed. But there are many that build them with chines on a shipyard and again, all OVNI line, that is hugely popular and are obviously built on a shipyard and very professionally have chines. That allows them to reduce costs and the price of the boats without a significant loss in performance.

Anyway it is more of a aesthetic preference than anything else. Some years ago I didn't like it...now I am used to them.

Since we are talking about amateur boat building and I believe that it is the main market for steel boats as well as for some aluminium ones I would like to post about some French NA that design for amateurs (and shipyards alike) mainly in Alu but also in steel. I believe it makes sense on this thread.

I will begin with François Lucas and his Hermine series, very popular among amateurs and that can also be built professionally:

naval architect nantes yacht designer racing sailing yacht cruising yacht motor boat workboat Réalisations - Designs Croisière

The Hermine 36 and the 40 are the more popular for amateur boat building:

The 36:


[[/URL]

The 40:








The 47:



Hermine 130



The Tp 44





and just for Classic 30 be satisfied let me put an Aluminium Lucas design without chines, even if most of his aluminium designs have chines. This one is not for amateur boat building but only for a professional shipyard.

The Aventurin 40





Regarding these boats the chines are more a convenience in what regards building easiness but as they are very well designed their negative influence in what regards boat performance are negligible, if any.

This was the NA that many years ago started the "fashion" of chines on open boats. When all boats have rounded hulls he designed a Plywood 40 class racer with chines, not vertical ones like the chines on the 60's but kind of modern ones, like they are used now. Everybody started to make jokes about the boat as a racing boat and about him regarding saying that the chines the way they were designed on the hull would better the performance. Well, the jokes stooped when the boat start winning races...and everybody went back to the drawing board again trying to understand why.
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Last edited by PCP; 02-17-2014 at 10:11 PM.
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  #3756  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Cam,

There are at least two if not three of those here in Puget Sound. One raced seriously over the last 20 or so years. Depending upon who buys it, not sure if it will be raced still or not.

I know of another that has been on the hard up in Port Townsend for what seems like eternity. at least a year and a half that I have been going up that way weekly.

I am recalling another that was for sale in Anacortes.....

Had to look for lines to the first one, never did find them, but the reason for it, looks great none the less........

marty
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Those boats look a lot better in the photos than they do as drawings.
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  #3758  
Old 02-18-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Chine have been around forever. No single NA started the "fashion" of chines. Star Class has chines. I10 class has Chines, Snipes, Lightnings, OK donghjies, Gear 18', 210 class Thunderbirds, Black Soo, Skipjacks, all number of workboats all the way up to the Spencer designed RAGTIME. There is nothing new about chines. Maybe they are new to you Paulo but I sailed my first chine boat in 1962. It was Rhodes Penguin class and in 1962 it was a relatively old class.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Not again Bob. I am not talking about almost 90º chines that were used on the 60's or on the star class but regarding the modern use of chines that comes not from a building convenience regarding the material that was used to build the boats but from a performance perspective (on fiberglass or carbon boats). And I think that this was fully discussed already.

The Rhodes Penguin class was a wooden boat and chines were used as a convenience in the building process, one that would not have great negative influence on performance. Maybe you can tell us about your fiberglass or carbon boats with chines? On those chines don't come as a building convenience but are designed with performance in mind. That's what I was talking about regarding Lucas. His 40 class boat was a plywood one but after that chines in hulls become the norm on solo racing boats, from the mini to the Open 60's, in carbon and fiberglass boats.

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....
Regarding these boats the chines are more a convenience in what regards building easiness but as they are very well designed their negative influence in what regards boat performance are negligible, if any.

This was the NA that many years ago started the "fashion" of chines on open boats. When all boats have rounded hulls he designed a Plywood 40 class racer with chines, not vertical ones like the chines on the 60's but kind of modern ones, like they are used now. Everybody started to make jokes about the boat as a racing boat and about him regarding saying that the chines the way they were designed on the hull would better the performance. Well, the jokes stooped when the boat start winning races...and everybody went back to the drawing board again trying to understand why.
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  #3760  
Old 02-18-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Yes, again Paulo. No need to be snide.

I don't draw a line between chine boats. Some were designed with chines to facilitate building other boats have chines for performance reasons. I think we all understand that. As I have said all along chines can be very effective in the right application. Is that so difficult to undestand?
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