Pros and cons of steel sailboats - Page 378 - SailNet Community
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post #3771 of 5317 Old 02-18-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
I love dead vegitation:
Carrots
peas
brocolli
Cauliflower
beans
spuds
Grapefruit
etc
etc
etc
I even like the fermented juice of dead vegitation
All excellent uses for dead vegetation. Just don't build your boats out of it.

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"
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post #3772 of 5317 Old 02-18-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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But the prices for your boats have fallen through the floor. We've seen plenty of actual evidence of that with all the ads we linked to above. Are you simply ignoring these facts?
Prices for all boats have fallen thru the floor, far less so for my boats, than for stock plastic boats . Unlike plastic boats, no one is abandoning them in back waters, or deliberately sinking them , no one is trying to find other uses to get rid of them, such as using ground up fiberglass cruising boats for concrete reinforcement , no one is giving them away.

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post #3773 of 5317 Old 02-18-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Gee Brent don't you even read and look at what Bob posts???? That PSC sure isn't a daysailor. It's clearly a beautiful, comfortable safe blue water cruiser as are myriad "plastic" boats. Instead of taking hits at people speak to the subject at hand. Convince me that going from my beautiful boat which sails circles around anything you've built, has a great ride, is wonderful to live in, is safe and strong is a poorer choice than your boats for a cruiser. I never have to worry about my hull. I can stay in just changing zincs as long as the bottom paint hold up. She has a layer true closed cell foam not needed structurally glassed in the inside of the hull and with a divinylcell cored deck your nonsense about condensation and heating/cooling is just bogus. You may realize by now I looked extensively into building in steel. After examining the pros/cons of various materials it came down to Al or grp as I could not tolerate the poor performance, maintenance requirements and poor resale value of building in steel. Yes 99.999% of shipping is in steel hulls but you need to provide some hard data beyond just your hearsay tales about these issues. I know steel boats lost to
fire- installation burned- boat basically meted inside out- not worth salvage
sinking- coating failed section of hull oil canned under stress boat sank
electrolysis- boat retired before expected service life don't worth replatng
I know of boats sold and owners going to glass or Al after finding performance so poor resulting expense of fuel s high that cruising was curtailed
More weight in the hull - less weight available for other things if one is to maintain displacement.
You talk in circles repeating how inexpensive your boats are. However you do not compare to other home methods such as modern wood. If expense is the issue buying a bare hull and outfitting it your self is better choice as you know its the huge hours doing the interior where the expense lies.
I have repetitively said steel is a great boat building material but still hold below 50-60' other materials make more sense.
P.S.- like most modern boats I have a watertight bulkhead forward and can navigate some so please don't repeat the diatribe about puncture resistance.
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post #3774 of 5317 Old 02-18-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Not nearly as scary as steel welds done by amateurs. You know, pretty much all BS Yachts?

(PS - I was happy to see that the Silas Crosby took my design advice over yours and had 36" life rails. It seems your customers regard my advice pretty highly - even when it's completely ridiculous.)
I put the lifelines on Silas Crosby. They are 34 inches off the decks . How high are the stock lifelines on your Catalina or your Hunter? 36 inches?
What crock!
Readers, go measure up a few, and base your judgement of Smacks credibility on that.
In over 40 years of mostly full time cruising, I have seen a lot of home built steel boats built and welded by amateurs, yet I have never seen or heard of a single steel weld ever having failed on any of them.

Smack knows absolutely nothing about steel, or steel boats, or welding them.

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post #3775 of 5317 Old 02-18-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Looked back at construction details. Believe my hull deck is glassed in as well. Only water I've ever seen in the boat is from the groove in the mast and that only when the boat is in a slip facing stern to the wind in the rain.
Unfortunately JonB is right. You just can't get Brent to face reality. It's psychotic to try. One of the definitions of psychosis is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. To get Brent to realize there are Yugos and Mercedes. Lots of 20 year old MBs on the road doing just fine.
My boat, like many of my boats , is 30 years old and doing just fine , after many Pacific crossings and mostly full time cruising, while my critics keep saying it wont last . They have survived torture tests which would have demolished any plastic boat in minutes. That is reality . What my critics claim, has long been proven to be fantasy, having noting to do with reality.

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post #3776 of 5317 Old 02-18-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Brent- there are Concordias in my area. G-d forbid older than you still sailing, gorgeous and standing up to all the north Atlantic hands out. BTW they are built in WOOD.
Point being we all agree boats in grp/wood/steel/AL can last longer than us if properly maintained. Somehow although no one is challenging this you continue to challenge this basic reality. You still have not spoken how you mitigate the basic failing of steel which is its weight. In hulls above 50-60' this is not a limiting determinate in performance or allocating of weight to stores/liquids or machinery nor is it too limiting in design. However, it is in smaller cruising boats. I am a critic of how you comport yourself in this forum but if you trouble yourself to read mine and others posts no where has limitation of service life of steel if properly constructed and maintained been impugned. Again speak to why a prospective buyer if looking for a small affordable boat would not be better served by the voyager40 project or buying a bare hull from Cape George or others and finishing it themselves. The Cape George vessels are yachts not boats with significant resale value.

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post #3777 of 5317 Old 02-18-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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I enjoy enabling people to have a good boat, without having to win the lottery. Marine money grubbers call that" immoral!"
Seems fair, since you seem to regard anyone with even a moderate level of wealth as "immoral".

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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What kind of price tag do you anticipate on that boat ?
I daresay more than the combined total of every boat you have ever built.
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I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #3779 of 5317 Old 02-18-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
After building Bob's Reliance 37 , and being very disappointed with how they sailed, Malcolm Wilkinson bought the molds for the Spencers, and began building them, considering them far better cruising boats, after having sailed one from BC to New Zealand and back.
Which Spencer? The 1330? If so, hardly a valid comparison since it's about twice the size of the Reliance - I guess it WOULD be a nicer cruiser. Also, you seem to have overlooked my comment that the Spencers were very good boats, just lacking somewhat in the artistry department.

I also seriously doubt that a boat designed by Bob and built essentially no expense spared by Markos would disappoint anyone.

Maybe if they were looking for an entirely different type of boat, but not otherwise.

The reasons there were so few Reliance 37's built was that it was extremely expensive and there were business/partnership problems experienced by the promoters, not that it was a poor performer.
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I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #3780 of 5317 Old 02-18-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

This lifeline debate is annoying, to stop you from tipping overboard they should be above your center of gravity, your solar plexas. To me that seems impractical.

Zen is a matter of recognizing reality.
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