Pros and cons of steel sailboats - Page 385 - SailNet Community
 1723Likes
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #3841 of 5317 Old 02-21-2014
Senior Moment Member
 
SloopJonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 11,443
Thanks: 59
Thanked 68 Times in 65 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Everyone in history who has come up with a new and better way of doing things has been ridiculed .
That assumes your origami process is "better" than all other forms of boatbuilding when in fact it is only simpler. It also sacrifices almost all style for simplicity and practicality.

Many of us want more than the basics - "Give me the luxuries and I'll do without the necessities".

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
SloopJonB is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #3842 of 5317 Old 02-21-2014
grumpy old man
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,236
Thanks: 1
Thanked 101 Times in 97 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

"the most butt ugly boats imaginable."

Well you would be the expert there Brent.

I fidnd them less than attractive but far better looking than anything you haver done.
Care to post one of your that looks better?
I'll wait.
I'll go make some bread.
I'll go watch some paint dry.

Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Bob's Blog ....

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Please also visit my new web site
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bobperry is offline  
post #3843 of 5317 Old 02-21-2014
grumpy old man
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,236
Thanks: 1
Thanked 101 Times in 97 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Brent:
That was regarding the Islander Yachts series. You seem to want to apply it to everything I have done. Do I need to post more construction drawings? They will only succeed in making you feel more inadequate. Islander always did their own engineering. This is common with almost every high production boat builder. But how would you know BS? You have never designed a grp boat so by your own definition you would know nothing about the process. You have never designed a production yacht. You design backyard boats.

For the record our "basic" set plan provided to Islander would have included:
Hull lines
Keel lines
Ballast
Rudder lines
Deck lines
Interior layout
Interior inboard profiles
Interior joiner sections
tank layout
Prop shaft strut
Deck plan
Deck gear schedule
Deck details
Sail plan
Rigging plan.
Often a detail drawings or two or three of various areas.

Any owner of one of my design can buy a complete set of plan for their boat for around $500. On my bigger designs where there may be 20 or more sheets of drawings the cost will be around $1,000. I am selling plans to boat owners all the time.

And, once again Brent your reading comprehension fails you. I asked you to provide the quote where I said wood and grp boats wers stronger than steel boats.

Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Bob's Blog ....

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Please also visit my new web site
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bobperry is offline  
post #3844 of 5317 Old 02-21-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 283
Thanks: 1
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
[/I][/B]

Hey! What'd we ever do to you.
Sorry!, I didnt mean any offence.BC is beautiful.I have many friends in BC and in the Maritimes.Very cool people.
Faster likes this.
jak3b is offline  
post #3845 of 5317 Old 02-21-2014
Just another Moderator
 
Faster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 16,534
Thanks: 104
Thanked 310 Times in 300 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by jak3b View Post
Sorry!, I didnt mean any offence.BC is beautiful.I have many friends in BC and in the Maritimes.Very cool people.
.... That's better.......
jak3b likes this.

Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Faster is offline  
post #3846 of 5317 Old 02-21-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: new england
Posts: 2,312
Thanks: 54
Thanked 44 Times in 41 Posts
Rep Power: 3
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Hey Brent. While back I politely asked you a series of questions. You have yet to do so. Please go back and try. That's what threads are for.
By the way any ocean sailor knows jack lines and harnesses are what to count on to keep you on the boat. Life lines are to steady yourself so you don't fall.
By the way taking an outbound from bvi to Bahamas. Getting plane in am. Nicer than bcc this time of year. No leaks except off the stern at night. Bye now.

s/v Hippocampus
Outbound 46
outbound is offline  
post #3847 of 5317 Old 02-21-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 283
Thanks: 1
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Yeah, Im still waiting for the pic of the fleet of his boats in Cabo and all the happy builder- sailors flippin the bird to those ship swindlers and disinformation agents.
jak3b is offline  
post #3848 of 5317 Old 02-21-2014
PCP
Senior Member
 
PCP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,212
Thanks: 21
Thanked 104 Times in 87 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
Re: Gilbert Caroff / Duflos

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Nice paint jobs , nice interiors , but the hull shapes on the first two are the most butt ugly boats imaginable.



http://www.caroff-duflos-architectur.../chatam_37.pdf





http://www.caroff-duflos-architectur.../chatam_40.pdf


You find the Chatam 37 ad 40 ugly? Well I cannot say that I find them very beautiful but I normally don't find beautiful old hulls and these designs have many years, more than 20 if I am not wrong, but I find them remarkably modern for their time. The designer is really old and is semi-retired now but those designs continue to be built all over the world.

Certainly it is (was) a great design and those boats have navigated extensively, circumnavigated and sailed on the Arctic and Antarctic. Certainly the hulls work fine otherwise they would not have been built in so large numbers. The French are quite picky in what regards sailing performance and have a huge number of options in what regards boats and Nas.

In what regards aesthetics it is a more subjective matter but I would say that they are beautiful to many otherwise he would not have about 6000 boats of his design sailing the oceans and the Chatam series are one of the more popular series.

He seems to care a lot more regarding how his boats look than you, or at least is what seems to me.

Regards

Paulo
bobperry likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by PCP; 02-21-2014 at 09:35 PM.
PCP is offline  
post #3849 of 5317 Old 02-21-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Hobart
Posts: 106
Thanks: 6
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
On BD.net they spoke lovingly of Lloyds Rules and ABYC while stating that one doesnt even consider the strength added by curves, while the other considers curves to give a maximum increase in strength of 15%. That is like claiming that a square oxygen bottle need only be 15% thicker to have the same strength as a round one! What a crock!
On that site, all but one of the people ridiculing what I have been doing, had almost zero experience in steel boat buiding, and the one who had some, had only limited coastal cruising experience. When asked he was th eonly one who responded.The rest were silent, indicating zero. Everyone in history who has come up with a new and better way of doing things has been ridiculed . Copernicus, Galileo, Columbus, Da Vinci , etc were all ridiculed by lesser men. The guy who suggested, in the1840s, that doctors should wash their hands after handling corpses, before getting involved in childbirth, was ridiculed for the rest of his life. So I am in good company. The only way to avoid ever getting ridiculed is to never come up with anything new, nor challenge in any way how things are being done, which is ,sadly ,how many people avoid ridicule. I prefer to leave such cowardice to lesser souls.

There are a dozen experienced yacht designers/naval architects/engineers several pro boatbuilders experienced in steel and numerous amateurs including coded welders with more knowledge than you, who either built or are building their own steel boats. They all universally condemned your ignorance and your hubris.

All class societies allow for curvature in effective thickness. As they allow a chine , deck edge cabin side etc to be counted as a girder. You don’t seem to get this. They count all these things and still require transverse structures. And that’s based on thorough analysis, the problem with thin shells ( boat hulls) is that they are thin relative to curvature and buckle easily. The amount of thickness you can reduce for curvature is carefully calculated relative to buckling criteria. What external pressure will start to collapse the hull. When you build to class rules that’s inherent in the scantling requirements. If you custom design you should be able to state the head of water the structure will stand.

Even your own client feedback runs counter to your made up engineering. Here Tom who made the mistake of building to your plans isn’t too happy with your engineering. To quote Tom's massage to you again which you simply ignored :

“Case and point my plans on the 26 showed no cabin beams or longs in the cabin and I questioned you on it and you stated it didn't need any because the camber of the roof gave it great strength. Why is it that after it was all welded up I could walk on the roof and rock up on the ball of my feet and bow in the roof and bulge out the cabin sides at the same time? Also what would happen if I had left it that way and took a big wave over the top?"

Tom ditched his BS design sold it and bought proper plans from a reputable designer and has built a better designed steel boat.

So it’s not only the knowledgeable designers and engineers who try to tell you have it wrong but your clients as well. And you still won't accept you have it wrong.
slap likes this.
MikeJohns is offline  
post #3850 of 5317 Old 02-21-2014
grumpy old man
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,236
Thanks: 1
Thanked 101 Times in 97 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I find those boats very nice looking and obviously designed to sail well.
There is no comparison to what BS has to offer. It is day and night.

But, what would I know.

Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Bob's Blog ....

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Please also visit my new web site
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bobperry is offline  
Closed Thread

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
C & C 24 pros and cons chuckg Boat Review and Purchase Forum 13 05-20-2015 12:05 AM
Hunter 36 Pros and Cons? turfguy Hunter 15 08-25-2014 05:08 PM
Pros and Cons of Catalina 350?? turfguy C350 6 10-16-2009 05:17 PM
Watermakers—Pros and Cons Tom Wood Cruising Articles 0 06-11-2002 08:00 PM
Steel Hulls—Pros and Cons Sue & Larry Buying a Boat Articles 0 09-12-2001 08:00 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome